My first toad

[djs12354]

I ask the "what did you get the fish on" question. Why? Because I am relatively new to the sport and it may be a pattern I did not think of using or it may reinforce my choice of fly. Either I learn something or I gain some confidence in my choices.

 

[BrookieChaser]

Djs, asking questions like that can only help you learn if the variables are similar.

As someone new to the sport I will offer you this; each stream is a separate biotic community and each fish (and fisher-person for that matter) is an individual.

 

[Maurice]

New forum rule...no asking what you got 'em on...its fly burning.

Sheesch! :roll:

 

[djs12354]

BrookieChaser wrote:
Djs, asking questions like that can only help you learn if the variables are similar.

As someone new to the sport I will offer you this; each stream is a separate biotic community and each fish (and fisher-person for that matter) is an individual.

Brookie,

I agree. The only constant is the lack of consistency!

But I will continue to ask. I'm stubborn that way.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I wanted to pose some questions on this and see what anyone thinks.

I had passed this particular stream onto Jeff a year or so ago. Last summer while fishing the hole he caught this brown out of, I had a fish snap my one x off on the take. I was near the car and it was time to go home so I didn't continue. I figured with it's relative close proximity to the river I had a smallmouth or musky snap me off. Jeff was kind enough to relay to me where he caught this fish, which is the location I gave him. I revisited it today because I was curious, what I saw stunned me.

I caught one fish around 18/20" but there are about 6 or 7 fish bigger in this hole. 2 of the females are in the 7/10lb range. They have flesh like mouths and are fat like Lake Ontario browns I have caught.
This stream you can jump across for the most part. Surely these are migratory river fish.

Having been reading on the subject of migratory browns they move more in the fall/winter than in the summer/spring.

I can't put my finger on why they are still here. I mean assuming one of these fish snapped me off in the summer, then they came for thermal refuge and to breed in the fall.

When are they using the river? Surely for longer than just spring.
It would be interesting to see these fish tagged and studied.

Oh and I caught mine on a 6" long articulated deer hair sculpin.

 

[Swattie87]

Sal - Did you get a look at the line that broke? Musky was my initial thought and a cut line, not a break. I've had this happen twice with either a Musky or good sized Pickeral. Violent take and then line is immediately limp. Also any chance of a bad or weak knot?

Reason I ask is that I don't think even a good sized river smallmouth (say 4-5lbs) would break off non damaged 1x with a decent knot...a Brown approaching 10 lbs maybe I guess, but a cut line from a Musky was the first thing that popped in my head.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

If my memory serves me correct it broke at the knot.

Today I used 0x.

 

[geebee]

This stream you can jump across for the most part. Surely these are migratory river fish.

Having been reading on the subject of migratory browns they move more in the fall/winter than in the summer/spring.

I can't put my finger on why they are still here. I mean assuming one of these fish snapped me off in the summer, then they came for thermal refuge and to breed in the fall.

When are they using the river? Surely for longer than just spring.
It would be interesting to see these fish tagged and studied.

Oh and I caught mine on a 6" long articulated deer hair sculpin.

were they lightly spotted ?

lake run browns run in the spring and fall - in spring they are chasing smelt, in fall they are spawning.

sea run browns in the UK, Ireland and Europe run from April to October and spawn in November - January. this is temperature and flow dependent.

i think it is possible that they could of run up in early summer, but unlikely due to the thermal issues of that stream. i think its more likely something else broke you off and its a coincidence.

The fish that are there now is a different matter - they are there to spawn or feed and i would think will be there until March / April.

the size of fish to creek ratio does not surprise me in the slightest - many small streams in Wales and on the South Coast of England produce fish in the 13-16lb class, The Arun, Adur, Ouse etc are famous for them.

Whilst the timing suggests that these big browns are there to spawn, the lack of reports of YoY browns in that stream (or larger fish), suggests to me that they can't be spawning there.

I would suggest notifying the PFBC and getting them to a) designate the river as C&R only and b) surveying the river in April or May when there should be juvi trout around.

My hunch is that these fish are overwintering there after spawning due to the food available and move out when the days lengthen to deeper water awaiting the shad run, and before the thermal issues occur.

My hunch does depend on there being somewhere on the Susky for them to spawn though - are there shallow gravelly areas ?

and FWIW, i don't think this is the only stream where this migration is happening - i think its likely in Deer Creek MD, and one other.

I plan to check out both streams in March to test my theory, as my only surprise was this wasn't happening - which i was told was due to the dams - as i posted before - Loch leven browns are migrational wherevr they are planted.

Cheers

Mark.

 

[Swattie87]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Today I used 0x.

Hehe

Those two strikes where I was cut off by a toothy critter are burned in my memory and are among my favorite moments fishing. I’m certain one was a Muskie given its size and location (lower Swatara Creek in Dauphin County). The other was probably somewhere in the low to mid 20’s in length and from Swatara Creek in northern Lebanon County…a big Pickeral was possible in addition to a Muskie there. Both strikes were ambush style from shoreline cover adjacent to chest deep, nearly still water. Both fish immediately cut the line and then just sat still a few inches below the surface with their backs slightly arched. Neither bolted or spooked, but just sank slowly back into their lairs…spooky almost.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Heavily spotted.

I'm not convinced this stream has bad thermal issues. It is loaded with small brown trout.

So you think they are there until mar/April? Everything in the timeline suggest such but to run where? To the river for just a few months?
That's what doesn't make sense to me. You would think they are using it for more than just 2 months.

 

[geebee]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Heavily spotted.

I'm not convinced this stream has bad thermal issues. It is loaded with small brown trout.

So you think they are there until mar/April? Everything in the timeline suggest such but to run where? To the river for just a few months?
That's what doesn't make sense to me. You would think they are using it for more than just 2 months.

well, there's been nothing i've seen online about these fish being caught - so its fair to assume that they are not there from April to October when the bulk of the fishing pressure is.

if there are small brownies around, then the runners could be spawning.

Most large heavily spotted wild browns i've seen come from tailwaters, spring creeks or other shallow water where there are very high insect and crustacean (scud/shrimp, craws) populations - but i find hard to believe such grazing is present in York or Lancs County. Hence these fish have to be meat eaters.

unless your stream is stocked and these fish can live off the stockie buffet - then they probably live from March to October in the depths of the Susky taking shad, bass, panfish etc.

 

[geebee]

btw - note the date of this video - February :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBsVnplmcG0

it was caught north of Harrisburg at Fort Hunter in the main river.

and its a brown - a runner, not a brookie...

 

[foxtrapper1972]

geebee-I am confused. You say this is at Fort Hunter. The guy in the video says he is at Port Deposit. That is in Maryland.

 

[wbranch]

Maurice wrote;

"New forum rule...no asking what you got 'em on...its fly burning."

Is this meant to be a joke?

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Before the river iced up there was a pod of whales spotted under the turnpike bridge. They must've come up through the fish ladders.

 

[Fishidiot]

wbranch wrote:
Maurice wrote;
"New forum rule...no asking what you got 'em on...its fly burning."

Is this meant to be a joke?

Yes

 

[Brown71]

Awesome sounding spot, glad you guys found/are enjoying. There's nothing like finding monsters, and remember, if they are there now, they will be there likely every year at this time.

I am VERY unfamiliar with that area, but my guess is they are either a)coming in to spawn from the river, then dropping back to the bigger holes down low and feeding, or b)chasing some type of food such as the shad mentioned, again I know nothing about this area. Big trout in general like to move from big water to small in fall/winter though, period. This is prevelant in tons of waterways, many less known than others, but it still goes down.

And, not to be argumentive, please don't take it that way, but fish with lots of spots can come from lakes, rivers, deep or shallow, run or no run.

Where I catch a good bit of my bigger fish is a trib to a lake in PA that has an excellent albeit very not publicized run of browns. They are some of the most heavily spotted fish I catch, and the lake is deep. Conversley, I occasionally catch one with very few spots. It just depends, and I truly believe you can get either type anywhere.

But, I do believe that a certain look predominates most fisheries for sure, just as I said the heavily spotted variety dominates this lake/trib.

My .02

 

[lv2nymph]

Awesome, congratulations. That must have been something else!

 

[sarce]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
So you think they are there until mar/April? Everything in the timeline suggest such but to run where? To the river for just a few months?
That's what doesn't make sense to me. You would think they are using it for more than just 2 months.

I am by no means an expert on big trout, but based on what I think I know/have heard about why trout migrate, I agree that does not make any sense at all for them to do that. If they are in fact coming from the river to spawn...why wouldn't they just go all the way back out of the creek afterward? What is the benefit of them sticking around (clustered in the same hole, no less)?

 

[Mike]

I have practically teed it up for you as to why the big fish are in the stream, particularly from fall through spring. See post #54. Let me explain it this way: the trout don't need to go to the river; the river comes to the trout. For a completely different reason, the trout are not short on big fish forage during the rest of the year either.

I have known this stream since I was seven years old. I discovered wild trout there by the time I was twelve. That is fifty years ago. Unknown to me at the time that I was seven, I also discovered the reason why the big fish are there fall through spring.

A few years ago I told a Board member about this stream and asked him to confirm wild trout for me when he got the chance. Now as a biologist recalling childhood I had a hunch that the wild trout that I captured fifty years ago or so was not going to be the only one. The Board member confirmed that I was correct. There are nice fish in the stream throughout the year and it has the physical habitat to support them.