Mo money mo problems

[Millsertime]

And while we‘re at it, why not limit the numbers of anglers on sone of the busiest streams during the busiest times, perhaps by having an annual drawing, restricting the number of non residents and/or guides, or by requiring a daily permit. (I could also support a $20 daily fee for some parts of Penns Creek a couple months of the year.)

Monetize Penns creek? I only hope your talking about privately owned stretches. I can't imagine paying to fish a publicly owned stretch of Penns. That would be a terrible idea and a rabbit hole I'd hate to allow the next generations to endure.

 

[Fish Sticks]

And, it's on many of those same state game commission lands (State Game Lands and State Forests) that have MANY wild trout streams that see very few fishermen.

Yea thanks game commission for those, pfbc just bought some boat ramps and a commercial level aquaculture operation when SGL’s were aquired

 

[Mike]

For all of you that say you’d pay more/would support an increase - have you been buying the volunteer permits? Not trying to shame anybody but I really appreciate this setup as it allowed me to use my money to voice my opinion to the PFBC in a more tangible way, putting money towards a specific “cause” if you will. I was happy to see they made this an option a few years back (and similarly the license button)

There is probably an untapped sub-set of wise investors who will not blindly contribute to such programs until they see evidence that the money is being well spent. I just looked at the PFBC web site (using its search engine) for such evidence and only found a report of the activities up until 2020. One would think that there would be an annual update, which if impressive with respect to project descriptions and geographical distribution of said projects, would encourage skeptical individuals to contribute based on this published evidence of the benefits.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Hmmmm..... Maybe you need different places to fish. I've fished an average of probably 3 days a week since April 1 and haven't seen more than a handful of other anglers on all of those trips combined.

This evening I was fishing a delayed harvest stretch of a stream and, once again, saw zero anglers.

I'm not really sure the game commission comparison is fair at all. Do you hunt deer? Head to some of that game commission owned land in deer rifle season. You'll see plenty of people AND the game commission has secured all that land.

Hunting license sales are like fishing license sales, too. Lower than they used to be.

I'm editing my post before I get called out on it to say this: on my Penns weekend in April we saw other anglers, quite a few. That was my only fishing trip of the year like that. But it was still easy to find space.

Thats why I go to where you live to fish lol. Its very regionally dependent. But thats planning a trip not after work. At the end of the day I am just speaking to others concerns I have heard about on here and pointing out that we will lose existing fisheries/ecosystem integrity to development and other changes and in general not gain new ones for most part and PFBC needs to take wins for fishing and conservation when the opportunity presents itself by protecting some.

 

[jifigz]

And, it's on many of those same state game commission lands (State Game Lands and State Forests) that have MANY wild trout streams that see very few fishermen.

You're right. We are lucky that way. We also have tons of state forest with plenty of wild trout streams. We are also lucky we can access all of this for free. Whether you buy a hunting license or not.

But we just complain, complain, complain and bash and bash and bash about mismanagement and access and everything else that apparently all of the agencies do so poorly. Maybe and maybe not.

 

[poopdeck]

my problem is not in the actual cost of the increase. My problem has always been about unelected bureaucrats having the power to raise taxes. Make no mistake about it, a fishing license is just one of many names used instead of saying the word tax.

According to our constitution the power to enact or raise taxes lies with congress who are elected officials we can hold accountable through the voting process. Right now the PFBC can do as it pleases and we have no way of policing their stewardship, or lack of, over taxpayer money since we can’t vote them out of office.

so while we can blame the PFBC all we want the blame rightfully belongs with our elected officials who now have an added layer protection between them and the perceived mismanagement of taxpayer money. the lack of knowledge over our very own constitution and how government is suppose to work is frightening and is the number one reason we anglers cannot see the forest through the trees.

In the meantime be happy over an increase that will accomplish nothing of what we want. it’s the new American way.

 

[Steeltrap]

I think (and could be wrong) the Governor has the power to appoint the directors of both management agencies (hunting and fishing).

So, if enough of a push is made for "mismanagement" (whatever that means) to the Governor's office, then change may likely occur.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I think (and could be wrong) the Governor has the power to appoint the directors of both management agencies (hunting and fishing).

So, if enough of a push is made for "mismanagement" (whatever that means) to the Governor's office, then change may likely occur.

Agreed we have sent letters and everyone on here can too.


The mismanagement would be doing the exact opposite of what fisheries scientists recommend be done to preserve biodiversity/native species richness during a time period when an estimated 1/3rd of freshwater fish are at risk of “extinction”, whatever that means.

If the fire dept showed up at your house when it was on fire and shot gasoline out of the fire hose wed all notice but when someone takes top 30 and top 100 most destructive invasive species in the world(brown top 30 rainbow top 100) out of 4-5 thousand known invasive species and pumps millions into struggling waterways during a mass extinction crisis we just shrug and say “i think their doing an ok job?”

“Invasive species are thought to have been involved in 70% of this century's extinctions of native aquatic species, and 42% of current endangered species are impacted significantly by invasive species”

“Freshwater fish populations are collapsing. Nearly 1/3 of all freshwater fish are threatened with extinction. In 2020 alone, 16 freshwater fish species were declared extinct. Since 1970, mega-fish—those that weigh over 66lbs—have declined in number by 94% and migratory freshwater fish saw a 76 % decline.”

One-third of freshwater fish face extinction and other freshwater fish facts | Stories | WWF

Freshwater fish are vital for communities, economies, and ecoystems. But they are under increasing threat and need our help now more than ever.

www.worldwildlife.org

 

[Yoder]

I already have enough things in my life to be angry about. I'll pay it and I don't really care. I spend more than that on an energy drink. In my area, I'm pretty happy with access and the amount and size of fish. The last two times I was out I fished a popular stocked stream. I walked in less than a mile and didn't see another person. This was on a weekend. If you want to get angry about streams being too crowded maybe look at Youtube influencers.

 

[dudemanspecial]

my problem is not in the actual cost of the increase. My problem has always been about unelected bureaucrats having the power to raise taxes. Make no mistake about it, a fishing license is just one of many names used instead of saying the word tax.

According to our constitution the power to enact or raise taxes lies with congress who are elected officials we can hold accountable through the voting process. Right now the PFBC can do as it pleases and we have no way of policing their stewardship, or lack of, over taxpayer money since we can’t vote them out of office.

so while we can blame the PFBC all we want the blame rightfully belongs with our elected officials who now have an added layer protection between them and the perceived mismanagement of taxpayer money. the lack of knowledge over our very own constitution and how government is suppose to work is frightening and is the number one reason we anglers cannot see the forest through the trees.

In the meantime be happy over an increase that will accomplish nothing of what we want. it’s the new American way.

That is a nice theory, but I'm the real world it does not work like that. Our elected officials did have the say in raising the license fees until just a few years ago. 15 years went by without an increase. I don't like taxes being raised as much as the next person but how can you expect an organization to keep up without being able to raise revenue for that long?

Also so few people would go into the polling booth worrying about the cost of a fishing license when they are electing representitives I cannot imagine it creating any kind of noticable effect. The masses are only worried about what the talk show hosts are telling them to worry about, and they aren't complaining about fishing license fees.

 

[fcarp]

There is probably an untapped sub-set of wise investors who will not blindly contribute to such programs until they see evidence that the money is being well spent. I just looked at the PFBC web site (using its search engine) for such evidence and only found a report of the activities up until 2020. One would think that there would be an annual update, which if impressive with respect to project descriptions and geographical distribution of said projects, would encourage skeptical individuals to contribute based on this published evidence of the benefits.

Agree. Great point as this was my initial feeling on this program (also was the same re the multi year license) but I figured it wasn’t a high risk investment to buy them for a few years and see how things shake out. I was willing to ‘risk’ my couple of $10/year permits (or whatever they cost)

Also I did not anticipate seeing a report considering knowing how cash strapped and underfunded the PFBC already is, that the few bucks for a voluntary permit wouldn’t yield another person to give updates to the program (and never really checked back to find one). But agree that more publicity on the PFBC side to highlight project accomplishments with these funds would be great (even just some simple bullet points in their regular emails).

 

[Fish Sticks]

but how can you expect an organization to keep up without being able to raise revenue for that long?

To answer your question cut invasive fish production, alot run onto private property anyway, and focus on PLACES TO FISH.

We used almost all of a $27.5 grant in 2020 on just hatchery repairs. Its like giving someone with a substance abuse issue or gambling problem more money.


If anyone wants to recoop some license dollars wasted on fish you paid for that bailed go hit the chesapeake bay near Baltimore

 

[Sharknado5]

Fish Sticks I love your blend of enthusiasm, idealism and sarcasm. May you resist the inexorable pressure that decreases your idealism and increases your sarcasm that comes with aging.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Fish Sticks I love your blend of enthusiasm, idealism and sarcasm. May you resist the inexorable pressure that decreases your idealism and increases your sarcasm that comes with aging.

He is the biggest troll on this board, and he turns any thread that has any mention of brown trout, brook trout, the PFBC and whatever other buzzword he can find into his soapbox that quite honestly keeps me from participating on here as often as I would like to.

 

[Bamboozle]

Yesterday I drove about 27 miles each way to go fishing, smoked two cigars, drank two craft beers before & one after and lost one fly in a bruiser wild brown.

A day earlier, I did the same thing but I smoked a more expensive first cigar, drank four beers instead of three, lost no flies but used approximately 24” of pricey fluorocarbon tippet material.

I assume I spent twice the price of a fishing license & trout stamp in just two outings so for ME, the cost of a license is nothing compared to the maintenance costs associated with the hobby.

I probably don’t utilize 90% of what my license fees pay for, but IF I go to a PFBC lake, or put my float tube in at a PFBC launch, or catch some stocked fish or want to peruse some fishing information on the PFBC website or rat some violator out to a WCO...

...it's nice to know I can so I don’t fret that it ISN’T all about ME and what I want most from the PFBC.

In regards to justifying the increase to the masses that don't feel as I do, maybe the PFBC should create signage with a photo of the resource (a fish or a boat ramp for example) with an associated cost to educate the public that they are getting value for their license fees...

If it was up to me I want to see more license money spent on law enforcement and law enforcement in that order. Nothing and I mean NOTHING burns my a$$ more than people who fish out of season, over-harvest, harvest illegally, poach, don’t buy licenses, litter, etc.

Lawlessness seems to have taken over this country and it can’t be a whole lot better when it comes to what is going on in the wilderness. I for one would LOVE to encounter a WCO once in a while...

It ain’t worth paying for and having if it isn’t protected from the slugs that don’t care...

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Way back when the boys were young and we kept fish, just for fun (and to keep them occupied for a few minutes), I had them tally the per pound price of the total bag. When they'd give me a dollar number, I asked them, "What about gas/food/t-shirts from the tackle shop/the $8 plug you insisted on buying and lost on the first cast/ and on and on?" The recalculated cost never stopped going up.
Some years later, I (legally) kept a fairly large trout, only to be scolded by the middle son that "that thing probably cost $50/lb."

 

[Sylvaneous]

Pennsylvania fishing license price increases approved

(WHTM) — The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission’s Board has approved a proposal to raise rates for fishing licenses and permits for next year. The license rate for Pennsylvania resid…

www.abc27.com

Raise it by $10 and start an aggressive program of securing steam access and launch ramps

 

[sixfootfenwick]

He is the biggest troll on this board, and he turns any thread that has any mention of brown trout, brook trout, the PFBC and whatever other buzzword he can find into his soapbox that quite honestly keeps me from participating on here as often as I would like to.

They have a block button 🤷

 

[Prospector]

Its almost like if you have tons of fish in your state but PFBC does nothing significant to secure access to streams we all have to stack up in the same ones.

Another thing covid did was sell thousands of gallons of purple paint. Pfbc is having angler access eroded and they don’t even know unless its one of their crappy stocked trout fisheries that they have to stop stocking when access is lost.



We need places to fish and spread out anglers and not just thousands of stocked invasive trout put into an eighth of a mile of stream in a municipal park that disperse onto private property.


We have 86k stream miles 2nd most to alaska and streams are crowded because, unlike the game comission, PFBC won’t acquire land for their license purchasers to secure sports future.

What will PFBC do with 5 million trout and streams degraded by development that are also posted in the coming decades?

See you all at children’s lake in boiling springs to compete over those 5 million stocked trout.

I’m not sure how it was paid for but PA has acquired stream access in Steelhead Alley. When I look at OnX it just says “Commonwealth of PA”. I imagine that is the most sought after fishing real estate in the state from Oct 1 to April 15.

So I’m saying those were wise purchases. Your point about having a plan to acquire land in the next tier of great stream frontage should be evaluated. Would be interesting to know how they assess and fund such a purchase.

 

[Zipper]

Wanna reduce your taxes, give up fishing.