Lehigh River Dam Study

[MattBoyer]

TimMurphy wrote:
Dear jay,

Just to let you know I didn't catch lakers from a float tube in Ontario but did catch piles of them by trolling within 100 yards or less of the shoreline.

As the water begins to warm in the Spring and the small fish and bait get more active the fish move close to shore. From a boat it is easy to see a "scum line" where the warmer and colder water mixes.

The fish are right along that line.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

From what I understand, they will also run the tribs around this time following the suckers and fallfish for an easy meal of eggs, but I have never personally seen one caught.

Boyer

 

[jayL]

Tim,

How's that statute of limitations thing in NY working out for ya? 🙂

Boyer, feel free to join.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear jay,

By May or June it should be expired. I'll be able to tell if I am sucessful buying a NY State license on-line. ;-)

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[jdaddy]

So are they gonna put steel 'n salmon in the Lehigh and D or not?

 

[jayL]

The Bucket brigade and the Stringer squad are still figgerin that one out. 🙂

 

[gfen]

They gots sciencetissorists on the job, working hard on creating you fish to make the run up over the dam and be able to accept the rugged, Lehigh River, climate.

Well, dang! There's a few workin on it right there!

 

[Fredrick]

TimMurphy wrote:
Dear Becker,

Why not concentrate on restoring all the native river species and make it a shad, herring, eel, and striper fishery?

The Delaware Bay and River is second only to the Chesapeake system as a breeding ground for stripers. They should be the focus of restoration efforts.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

Sorry Tim the Hudson river system is either first or second depending on how degraded the the Cheasapeak bay is but either way the Delaware is the third biggest breeding ground for stripers

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Fredrick,

You and vcregular are of course correct, I forgot about the Hudson, my mistake.

That doesn't change the my original point though. The river surely had the occasional trout swimming around at times, but the rainbow trout were introduced after a train broke down at Callicoon Creek in the late 1800's.

The Delaware was a striper, shad, eel, and herring fishery and introducing steelhead and Atlantic Salmon would be a mistake. We don't need to add any more glamor fish to the system.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[jdaddy]

gfen wrote:
They gots sciencetissorists on the job, working hard on creating you fish to make the run up over the dam and be able to accept the rugged, Lehigh River, climate.

Well, dang! There's a few workin on it right there!

That looks awesome! PA needs more motor boats and baseball bats!

 

[Chaz]

Too bad that no one is supporting restoration of native fishes other than shad to the river. 175 years ago the river was clean enough to support brook trout, Audubon wrote about it. It's time someone besides me supported the restoration of brook trout in the Lehigh.

 

[SBecker]

Chaz, we have tried to stock brookies, but we hear way to much negative feedback from fisherman because they feel it is a waste.

If you have ideas on how to restore the river further then what we are trying to do, send me a PM or come to a meeting. We would be happy to hear your concerns or ideas!

 

[Chaz]

Neither Steelhead nor Atlantics are native to the Delaware River system. Would I love to see Atlantic Salmon Restored, yes, but only in their native rivers. And that has proven to be the most expensive restoration effort undertaken and it isn't working anyway.
So I say restore the native fishes and leave it at that.
We already have several species of junk non natives in the Delaware River System we don't need more.
Get rid of the dams and you can restore the shad, they won't use the ladders there's more than 30 years of history regarding the ladders on the Lehigh. I don't know why they though it would work in the first place. I was probably the only person that favored getting rid of the dam when they made the case for the ladders.
As for TU stocking Fish, IMHO, NO TU CHAPTER regardless of the circumstances should be stocking trout in waters anywhere, TU is not a fishing Club, it is a conservation organization. PFBC raises trout let them do the stocking. TU chapters should set their sights on restoring habitat just like their charters say they will.
I don't know why a TU chapter would even want to be involved in a tournament except to raise funds. In that case I suppose someone could make the argument, but I sure ah*!? won't it. The only reason a TU chapter should stock any trout or request a stocking of trout is to jump start a restoration of native fish. There is no stream that holds exotic trout that won't support natives. You cannot do a restoration of a trout stream without considering restoration of native fishes.
Just MHO
Atlantic Salmon were native to Lake Ontario, their land locked cousins were native to the other lakes and rivers that were tributaries. However the evidence it not wide spread evidence. Brook Trout were native to the Great Lakes and many tributaries, but you don't anyone touting restoration of brookies to the lakes. No they'd rather make the lakes a dumping ground for extra exotic fish raised in hatcheries. I could go on about the bad decisions made by fisheries guys, but I'm already exhausted.
STOCKING FISH IS NOT CONSERVATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SBecker]

Ok, so all you say is fantastic and I partially agree with a bunch of it. However, we are not just a stocking organization and we do many restoration projects. Hell, look up who basically ran and is still keeping up with the Lausanne mine. I asked you for suggestions on what more we can do, instead you freaked out. You should see all of the applications for grant money we have out to do restoration work and build parks with handicap access. When you are done acting like a #OOPS# bag and would like a project to start to take shape, we would be happy to jump behind it. Thanks

 

[Chaz]

I did not freak out. Keep on doing what you are doing, get the mine drainage taken care of and push ACE to do the right thing and provide more cold water for the river. mcuh of the riparian area along the river is public and it should be easy to get cooperation from PGC and DCNR on anything in the riparian zone. What needs work are the tributaries not on public land.
Re-mining is a huge deal but may need to be done in many cases, focusing on the west bank side, the east bank tribs are mostly fine.
Brook Trout will grow big in the river, if left to grow. Make them catch and release, all the tribs have them they will repopulate on their own.
But if you put in Steelhead and Salmon the balance of the other fishes in the river will be compromised.
Oh I forgot to ask, has anyone considered what will happen to the steelhead and salmon once they reach the Atlantic Ocean that is too warm for them?

 

[LehighRegular]

Not going to have a brook trout population in decent numbers until the FEW reservoir stops warming the river during the summer months. Until, then any brook trout restoration efforts or even discussion should be tabled.

Stocking of brookies is not needed, there are enough in the tribs to populate the river if and when FEW is fixed.

 

[jdaddy]

Chaz wrote:
There is no stream that holds exotic trout that won't support natives. You cannot do a restoration of a trout stream without considering restoration of native fishes.
Just MHO

Sure you can. It is done all the time.

However, what if consideration is given and there is a decision to continue with the promotion of rainbow and brown reproduction because that is what 95% of the fishing population wants on 95% of the water?

 

[SBecker]

There will be no stocking of brookies on the Lehigh this year. It will be a 50/50 of Browns and Bows.

Hopefully we will be hearing back soon on the fish ladder on the Po.

Further, I am not the one pushing for exotic species to be introduced into the river. if it would work and it would be safe for the environment in addition to a financial windfall for the local, then I would be for it. All i was saying is that there is talk of this going on through the local organizations.

 

[Chaz]

If an enviromental impact statement was required for every place that was stocked there would be stockingin only a very few streams and lakes. Of course there's an impact ANYTIME you stock EXOTICS. Whole native populations on native fish collapse because of stocking. And if a fish ladder goes in at beltsville, whos going to keep the muskies out of the trout water, or the walleyes and bass. All these Exotic fishes have an imact on trout streams, it's a dirty little secret that no one talks about.
A fish ladder is a very expesive and bad idea. What would be the purpose? We already know shad won't use them, and even though trout do they won't use them enough to increase the population.

 

[SBecker]

Chaz, we are not looking for the fish ladder to go in at Beltzville, just thinking about that makes me laugh my *** off. We are looking at a fish ladder at the Parryville dam on the PO. I know already there are muskies above that dam, because I have put one there. The point of the fish ladder is to give the trout in the Lehigh a larger thermal refuge and spawning area. This way they do not get stuck at the dam and get slaughtered, like every year. You know there are walleys and bass in the Pohopoco water already, we would not be introducing anything. The come out of the spillway of Beltzville. I can't believe a man with your vast knowledge does not know this. The Alaskan fish ladder is little over 100grand and the state has already told us they will match the grant that we receive to do improvements. The ladder is also movable and is able to be resold if it does not produce like it's promised. Listen anytime you have an idea please let me know.

O and do not suggest we tear down the Parryville dam, it's a lost cause.

 

[troutbert]

Why do people want the Parryville to remain?