Lehigh River Dam Study

[jayL]

They'd spread all over, just like the ontario fish do. It's an evolutionary hack. If they all spawned at the same spot, the entire population could be wiped out by a single event.

 

[SBecker]

OK, Thanks Jay

Still hoping one of the TU guys can explain to me the reasoning for requesting stockings in certain situations, but poo pooing it when it does not seem to suit them? Furthermore, I hope you do not think I am bashing TU, just trying to gain an understanding.

 

[Mike]

Steelhead: A fish that tends to stray, thus just one of the concerns about the upper Delaware even if the original fish were stocked in the Lehigh.

 

[SBecker]

Ehhh F the Upper D LOL j/k

 

[jdaddy]

LRSABecker wrote:
The thing that kinda gets me is this, I was always under the assumption the TU was against stocking over wild and natives, correct? Why did the TU up near the Ausable request a large stocking of trout on the Ausable, so there would be more fish for a 2 fly contest? Also, been told they frequently request stockings on the LL. Am I just wrong?

Question.... Are the Steel programmed like the Salmon to return to their birth waters? If yes, then if the birthing was done on the Lehigh, would this not mean they would only return to the Lehigh?

Birthing? Sorry, had to get ya on that one!

Each TU chapter has to make their own decisions on stocking. Some TU's have their own hatcheries and are very dedicated to the practice of stocking. One would like to think that this would occur in waters which did not have a strong wild, self sustaining population.

 

[gfen]

LRSABecker wrote:
Also, I know the laughs will come or I will be getting yelled at by you guys, BUT....once the dams disappear Atlantic Salmon and (steelhead)

Oh for eff's sake, jam the steelhead up the doctor's netherbits. They belong on the damned west coast, where they started.

Do Altlantic salmon belong there, or is that just someone's* wetdream so they don't have to get in their damned car and drive the threeish hours to the Salmon River?

I wish people would be more concerned with trying to reverse collapsing ecosystems due to mankind's accelerated use of Earth rather than try to prop it up with their pet projects.

(* originally "stringer junkie," but in the interests of civility, it has been moved here, however, its way too fantastic a phrase to let go into that good night)

 

[franklin]

I'd be very surprised if the dam at Allentown gets removed. There are a number of homes on Adams Island that have docks and their value is increased a great deal by river access to that section of the river for water skiing etc. If the dam is removed I don't think the levels would support a pool anywhere near large enough for unlimited recreational boating. On Google Maps there appears to be a marina in that section as well.

 

[SBecker]

franklin wrote:
I'd be very surprised if the dam at Allentown gets removed. There are a number of homes on Adams Island that have docks and their value is increased a great deal by river access to that section of the river for water skiing etc. If the dam is removed I don't think the levels would support a pool anywhere near large enough for unlimited recreational boating. On Google Maps there appears to be a marina in that section as well.

You are correct, as I stated earlier, Allentown is not so much on board as everybody else. However, The mayor did sign off on the research, so thats promising.

 

[SBecker]

gfen wrote:

LRSABecker wrote:
Also, I know the laughs will come or I will be getting yelled at by you guys, BUT....once the dams disappear Atlantic Salmon and (steelhead)

Oh for eff's sake, jam the steelhead up the doctor's netherbits. They belong on the damned west coast, where they started.

Do Altlantic salmon belong there, or is that just someone's* wetdream so they don't have to get in their damned car and drive the threeish hours to the Salmon River?

I wish people would be more concerned with trying to reverse collapsing ecosystems due to mankind's accelerated use of Earth rather than try to prop it up with their pet projects.

(* originally "stringer junkie," but in the interests of civility, it has been moved here, however, its way too fantastic a phrase to let go into that good night)

Yea, I mean I know I would not want any of these fish in the Lehigh and Delaware system, because they would not bring billions of dollars into the economies of the towns up and down the rivers.

 

[jayL]

Billions? Seriously?

Sorry becker, but the bucket biology is getting ridiculous IMO. I'm with rhinestone jerry on this one.

 

[SBecker]

jayL wrote:
Billions? Seriously?

Sorry becker, but the bucket biology is getting ridiculous IMO. I'm with rhinestone jerry on this one.

You might reconsider. I did not say a billion in the first year of the program. I just said Billions, meaning over many years. I forget the exact #, but they say a healthy fisherie brings 1 million dollars for every mile of resources. If thats true, how many miles long are the Lehigh and Delaware and tribs? Think that will add up to a billion pretty fast, no?

Don't be so quick to say I am wrong just because it's me 🙂

 

[jayL]

I assumed you were wrong because you provided no supporting information, for what it's worth. You still haven't provided any. 🙂

And regardless, what price can we put on existing populations of fish that would be displaced? What about the brook trout streams that enter these waterways? They'd surely become steelhead spawning beds. Do we really want to open pandora's box?

 

[Acristickid]

For those that have fished both- just curiuos, is the Lehigh similar do the Yough? I dont know a thing about the Lehigh but from the limited bits I gather it sounds similar to the Yough.

 

[SBecker]

jayL wrote:
I assumed you were wrong because you provided no supporting information, for what it's worth. You still haven't provided any. 🙂

And regardless, what price can we put on existing populations of fish that would be displaced? What about the brook trout streams that enter these waterways? They'd surely become steelhead spawning beds. Do we really want to open pandora's box?

Jay, I understand what you are saying about the brookies and I personally do not know that answer such as I am only a bucket biologist. These are great questions that i would love to understand as well.


Here is a link to what Idaho coalitions are saying the return of Salmon and Steel to the Snake River basin would bring in annually. I am just guessing that the Lehigh, Delaware is larger.

http://www.hydroreform.org/news/2005/08/02/restoring-idahos-fisheries-could-bring-over-500-million-annually-to-state-economy

 

[SBecker]

acristickid wrote:
For those that have fished both- just curiuos, is the Lehigh similar do the Yough? I dont know a thing about the Lehigh but from the limited bits I gather it sounds similar to the Yough.

It's funny that you brought this up, because I always wondered the same thing about the Yough. I am also looking for this answer.

 

[jayL]

The snake river is in idaho. The ocean is far from idaho. I'll take a guess that you're wrong, but choose not to do research.

But all that aside, it's apples and oranges because those species are native to that drainage.

Sorry man, but I am rooting against this, and I will be joining other anglers in fighting it tooth and nail if you guys try to do it.

 

[gfen]

LRSABecker wrote:
Yea, I mean I know I would not want any of these fish in the Lehigh and Delaware system, because they would not bring billions of dollars into the economies of the towns up and down the rivers.

Pfft.

And no, I wouldn't. Period. Full stop.

These creatures DO NOT BELONG in this water. They are alien invaders. While I'm fully aware two of the finest sporting fish around are also completely alien invaders (the brown trout and the smallmouth bass), they've managed to nicely find their niche, adapt and thrive. However, if we moved our discussion back 250 years ago, I'd be making the same damned argument then, too.

We do not need to drop more creatures that don't belong in these water ways because some jackhole wants to go fishin' for them once a year.

Hell, some guy thought raising Asian Carp in a backyard pond to bring himself a taste of the olde country was a good idea too until they started to overrun the waterways of north IL, too.

All this mucking abotu moving animals around the world is a bad idea. Its foolish to think that mankind's short sightedness can fix the wonderful ways in which life has evolved to fill a specific niche in a given enviroment. If there were to be steelhead trout in the Lehigh and Delaware river, they'd be there.

There are not. Was there even a population of sea run brook trout in those rivers, when brook trout could thrive in them? Is there even history that salmonoids or char did an ocean run from the Lehigh or Delaware river, ever?

Instead, people are crying about how the striped bass, returning to their ancestral homewaters, might eat "the trout" in the fscking Delaware! WAH! Who the motherloving cares! Your trout do not belong there, and your sprot fishery can take a leap for all that it matters in the grand scheme of things. Embrace and enjoy the return of biodiversity to the world in which you walk, rather than cry about the fact that your invasive species are being eaten by the real inhabitants.

I want to see the dams come out, and I want to see your silly steelhead idea fail. Drive to the Great Lakes. THey want your billions of dollars.

 

[gfen]

The Lehigh Valley: a natural and environmental history
In centuries past the Lehigh River served as a spawning ground for American Shad, alewives, and other sea-run species..."

No mention of salmon, trout, or char there. I find it odd to believe that if the Lehigh hosted a salmon run it wouldn't be mentioned instead of "other sea-run species," as they're kind of a big deal.

 

[SBecker]

I do not know Gfen why you are attacking me, as I stated before, I am not the one personally behind this and I am not the one that believe this will work. I am just stating what I have been told by people that know more then me. I will back it though if it proves to be true, just because of the financial windfall it could bring.

Were salmon and steel present in Erie, Ontario, or did they start stocking them? Don't here people complaining now do I? I would also guess that those tribs held brook trout as well?

 

[jayL]

The establishment of the fisheries in erie and ontario is already done. The damage can't really be reversed.

You can't compare the relatively closed ecosystems of the great lakes and tribs to that of the delaware watershed and bay. It doesn't make any sense.