John Arway; Director PFBC

How is mentioning the closing of hatcheries equivocal to crossing an ethical line? It is a financial reality. I guess our elected officials are that far out of financial reality? I would love to hear the rep's full explanation on that rationale.
 
Salmonid, believe it or not the theory is less stocked trout = less votes. Some legislators took hatchery closing somehow as a threat, and as a threat, unethical. Stocked trout are apparently a political weapon is some districts.
 
salmonoid wrote:
How is mentioning the closing of hatcheries equivocal to crossing an ethical line? It is a financial reality. I guess our elected officials are that far out of financial reality? I would love to hear the rep's full explanation on that rationale.

I believe the threat was he would close hatcheries in the districts where they voted against the license increase and remind voters during election time. I'm paraphrasing, if I'm wrong please correct me. Definitely a shot across the bow, which I support btw.
 
I really like TR’s letter. Nicely done sir. Hope you get a response. I have yet to get a reply from my rep for anything I have sent, regarding this. They (legislators) can try to spin it anyway they want. It’s horsheet.
They wouldn’t know ethics if it bit them on the fanny.

And Gillespie, with his “cure for cancer” comment... I sent him a letter asking for his resignation. F’ing piece of garbage.

 
ryansheehan wrote:
salmonoid wrote:
How is mentioning the closing of hatcheries equivocal to crossing an ethical line? It is a financial reality. I guess our elected officials are that far out of financial reality? I would love to hear the rep's full explanation on that rationale.

I believe the threat was he would close hatcheries in the districts where they voted against the license increase and remind voters during election time. I'm paraphrasing, if I'm wrong please correct me. Definitely a shot across the bow, which I support btw.

But that is not unethical. It's the truth. Or at least its the PFBC Executive Director choosing to play politics. And he is unfortunately getting his political dues as a result, with little or no recourse (unless he goes through with his threat, in a vengeful manner). I've read the articles and opinions posted by Arway and others, but I'm still grasping at where the unethical straw is.
 
ryansheehan wrote:
salmonoid wrote:
How is mentioning the closing of hatcheries equivocal to crossing an ethical line? It is a financial reality. I guess our elected officials are that far out of financial reality? I would love to hear the rep's full explanation on that rationale.

I believe the threat was he would close hatcheries in the districts where they voted against the license increase and remind voters during election time. I'm paraphrasing, if I'm wrong please correct me. Definitely a shot across the bow, which I support btw.

Of course. His only flaw was thinking the pampered Harrisburg elite could actually learn from having what they do into others, done into them.

I am curious what faction against the increase has such a power over these reps.
 
So, Mrs. Fee (my state representative) called me this afternoon and explained her reasoning for supporting term limits on the Executive Director position of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission. For that, I appreciate her time. However, she stated that she believes John Arway’s solution to the SB30 funding increase impasse was “unethical.”

To clarify, Mr. Arway’s solution to a lack of funding caused by years of politicians stalling the increase request is to close a few PFBC hatcheries. These closures would cause a decrease in trout available for stocking into approved trout waters throughout the state.

Mr. Arway has suggested that districts whose representatives have stalled the passage of SB30 should be held accountable for the resulting consequences: fewer state raised fish.

As such, moving forward without an increase, Mr. Arway has suggested that these specific districts should bear the burden of the fish deficit caused by their unwillingness to fund the rearing and stocking of these fish.

Now I admit, that’s a bold move, but I fail to see how it’s unethical. It seems that turnabout is not fair play in Harrisburg. The legislators said that they would work to approve the fee increase in 2014 when this very same problem was raised to their attention. It’s been 4 years. How is it ethical to drag your feet for 4 years and not be held accountable?

Instituting term limits on an Executive Director for doing his job is not the answer. It’s petty. It also serves as a bad precedent. The actions proposed by Mr. Arway are supported by the board of commissioners. Does that mean they should have term limits as well? How far does this have to go?

SB935 is unnecessary. It is a political act of revenge for something that should have been dealt with 4 years ago. Again, these representatives don’t want to pay the price for their inaction. They want anglers to pay the price by weakening the PFBC.

John Arway is a good Director and this might be one of his most meaningful endeavors as ED. I encourage you to continue the discussion with your reps. To their credit, they are listening.
 
The statements by Ms. Fee that Mr. Awray's actions were somehow unethical is just political bull**** that supporters of SB-935 need to justify their position because there is no rational justification for the bill. It is political vengeance, pure and simple, and an abuse of power. While the legislators may be listening, but I have no faith that they will change their position.
 
Let me offer this:

The PFBC is run by the commissioners. They set policy; the ED carries it out. They hire and fire the ED. They can limit his or her term as they please. Clearly, they think he is performing his job adequately.

If the legislature wants to take control of the situation, they need only replace the commissioners. Placing restrictions on how long they can employ their ED makes no sense, and if any of the people supporting this bill can make me see the sense in it, let them speak now or forever hold their peace.
 
BETTER YET BRING THIS THREAD TO THE AWARENESS OF A POWERFUL NEWS PAPER IN THE STAT SUCH AS THE INQUIRER OR TRIB.
TELL YOUR FRIENDS AT WORK, CLUBS EC.
UTTERLY REVENGE AT THE PERILS OF US THE FISHERMAN OF THIS STATE.
 
I don't think I'd draw the attention of any of the papers specifically to this thread. This is an internet message board and like most such forums, the comments have been a mix of thoughtful and constructive contributions as well as some remarks that to an objective observer might look a little, well, unhinged... I don't think daylighting the thread would be helpful, frankly.

I do like the idea though of politely writing to newspapers as individual anglers/citizens, particularly if the letters, in addition to expressing support for Mr. Arway, also asked Jack's question, which I think is a very good one and likely to force responses from individual legislators. That question, of course, being: where and why and how is it that this process jumped the established rails of responsibility/authority where the Commissioners are responsible for the ED? It is not in the Legislature's purview to assume this authority and the only answer I have heard from any of them as to why it is being done is "because the Commissioner's won't act" which is wholly unsatisfactory, IMO. This deserves to be daylighted and asked publically. The responsible legislators owe the public a better answer than: "Because we want to or because the Commissioner's won't".

My dime's worth anyway..
 
This was posted on my business FB page in response to my post #68 which was also posted on FB. The following was written by PFBC Commissioner Richard Lewis:

Thanks for this post.

As a Fish and Boat Commissioner I have been pressured to, but will not, vote to remove John Arway as our executive director. I am personally not going to vote fire a PFBC Executive Director who has fought for 38 years, and continues to fight, for the resource, the fisher persons, and the agency just because he made one misstep by "targeting" the reduction or stoppage of trout stocking in a few specific legislative districts. The plan to “target“ the reduction or ending of fish stocking on streams in specific legislative districts has subsequently been
withdrawn and is now longer no longer on the table

I wish other PA Natural Resource Agency heads would fight as hard for their constituencies/agencies as John does for the PFBC.

The fact of the matter here is that if the Pennsylvania legislature, specifically the House of Representatives, had voted to approve a license fee increase all of this would not even be being discussed now

The House of Representatives refusal to grant a license fee increase for over 12 years, an action that a majority of Pennsylvania fisher person’s support, has put the agency in a precarious financial position with a $6 million budget deficit starting in July in our 2018– 2019 fiscal year. This is exactly the reason why the commissioners voted last September to cut $2 million out of this budget which includes the closing of three fish hatcheries.

You are correct in placing the “blame” for this whole mess exactly where it belongs… Right with our elected officials.

The six dollar license fee increase that the commission has been requesting is about what it costs to buy one 1/4 pounder burger meal with fries at McDonald’s!

The vindictiveness of the legislators in trying to fire John Arway has shown me a side of Pennsylvania politics that I don’t find very pleasing.
 
CRB wrote:
BETTER YET BRING THIS THREAD TO THE AWARENESS OF A POWERFUL NEWS PAPER IN THE STAT SUCH AS THE INQUIRER OR TRIB.
TELL YOUR FRIENDS AT WORK, CLUBS EC.
UTTERLY REVENGE AT THE PERILS OF US THE FISHERMAN OF THIS STATE.


The Philadelphia Inquirer and Daily News is on it as well as other publications:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/fish-boat-commission-funding-fishing-trout-harrisburg-20180306.html?update&mobi=true

http://www.meadvilletribune.com/news/wildlife-agency-funding-plan-creating-controversy-at-capitol/article_67aa34be-c989-11e7-870b-a73e85a05275.html




 
This morning.

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/state/2018/03/18/John-Arway-Fish-and-Boat-Commission-Senate-and-House-Game-and-Fisheries/stories/201803180110
 
In regards to stocking the Fish & Boat has been cutting down on stocking especially in upstate creeks for over the past 20 years. For example on Fishing Creek it would get 15 buckets of trout three times a year and now three buckets with cigar sized fish are stocked two times a year. There were plenty of fish years ago and no complaining about private property or lack of fish. Today the stocking is being subsidized and coming in the way of private clubs and landowners which has also led to significant trespassing on private land and abuse of land which is another story all together, but ties directly to lack of stocking and numbers of fish. It's created other issues as well...

Not sure what the solution is here but Fish and Boat isn't really supporting the trout program or fisherman of PA. Maybe its money or maybe its just excuses....or somewhere in between. All I know as a landowner I have seen a significant decline in stocking and also abuse of private land. Shame that this all over a trout...

Ron
 
PALongbow wrote:
In regards to stocking the Fish & Boat has been cutting down on stocking especially in upstate creeks for over the past 20 years. For example on Fishing Creek it would get 15 buckets of trout three times a year and now three buckets with cigar sized fish are stocked two times a year. There were plenty of fish years ago and no complaining about private property or lack of fish. Today the stocking is being subsidized and coming in the way of private clubs and landowners which has also led to significant trespassing on private land and abuse of land which is another story all together, but ties directly to lack of stocking and numbers of fish. It's created other issues as well...

Not sure what the solution is here but Fish and Boat isn't really supporting the trout program or fisherman of PA. Maybe its money or maybe its just excuses....or somewhere in between. All I know as a landowner I have seen a significant decline in stocking and also abuse of private land. Shame that this all over a trout...

Ron

No doubt stocking in both numbers of trout and number of stockings has declined in the last 20 years. In the 90's there were close to 1M fishing licenses sold in PA but that number has declined steadily over the last 20 years. Also each year costs increase, yet license fees do not keep up with these increases, since the FBC has no been allowed to raise fees since 2005.

As you have written above, one of the problems with cuts in stocking is some land owners grant access to their property along stream in order for the PFBC to stock it. Cuts in stocking sometime result in loss of access for anglers.

As you noted, no doubt there are many more private clubs stocking streams. Some are co-ops that receive fish to raise from the PFBC and stock public waters, while others are private clubs that stock private waters not open to the public.

This trend will likely continue, but things are not all bad though for PA trout fishing. Many streams have rebounded because of stricter water quality laws, and wild trout are more prevalent in more streams than ever, at least going back more than a century and a half, I would guess.

Less stocked trout for sure, but more wild trout now and in the future, if we keep it up and support conservation efforts.
 
Hey Guys:
If you want to let your state reps know your opinion here’s a link that shows who your reps are by town or township. Very useful. Make your voice heard. http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/findyourlegislator/pdf/2018_PrecinctDirectory_1515599913799.pdf
 
Once you find out the name of your rep. Find their contact info with this link:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/contact.cfm?body=H
 
Back
Top