It’s just fishing.

My only thoughts would be ...

There's still tons of gray area out there. There's a strict "stay at home" order in whatever regards you want to comprehend that as per the governors posted article. Unless you need something to live(food, medicine) or you need to check on the well being of another(parents, etc). Then stay off the road until told otherwise.

Except one of the noted exceptions are "Bike riding, hiking, running..." Since when is that vital or critical? To me that gray area then means fishing, kayaking, etc. I think its pretty safe to say doing those things logically are safer in this scenario then biking when you see the lines of cars packed together outside parks every day for them to get their jog in...

Yet you have people getting fined for "taking a car ride" just to get a damn breath in. Last time i checked, you need to be driving in order to park in a group to ride your bike, or take a walk..

If a "no fishing, no nothing, dont go anywhere except the grocery store" order comes into play. Does no fishing mean i cant walk out of my backyard and fish the river that flows by? There always going to be some sort of descrepency. And what sucks is, everyone with half a brain would be safe and not contribute to the spread by fishing alone in the woods compared to your daily bikers and jogger spitting on one another.
 
mute - You’re right. I think fishing and kayaking probably do currently fall in with the hiking/biking/exercising thing, and are currently probably legally ok, as long as you’re not somewhere specifically closed off, and are practicing appropriate social distancing while doing it. Heck, the PFBC’s official advertised position (as of now) is fishing is good to go.

The issue I foresee specifically for fishing though centers around the scenarios OD typically creates...people crowded around stocked “honey holes” and not spreading out very well. How do you stop that? Can you trust the public to do it proactively? If not, unfortunately, a broad brushed “no-fishing” order may be the answer chosen. It may be the only answer. Followed by enforcement by WCO’s against anyone fishing.

Though the guy walking out his back door and fishing (by himself) the stream in his back yard is clearly not the behavior intending to be limited, it will nonetheless be illegal if this happens. I would interpret “no fishing” pretty literally to mean no fishing. Not all that gray in my mind. Whether that stops any individual in the scenario you depict is up to them, but if caught, clearly they could be subject to whatever the disciplinary action put in place is.
 
I don't know folk....But please wear a mask when/if you go.
 
Mute: Exercise is critical to maintaining immunity, reducing stress, and encouraging forms of good health. In the long run it reduces the burden on the medical system and insurance system, and if practiced by everyone would greatly reduce insurance rates. I am betting that at this time it is being encouraged with the idea of improving or maintaining immunity and enhancing mental health.

As for me, with the combination of daily exercise and eating less food in order to reduce the need to go to the supermarket, I am losing weight, which is something that the majority of Americans need to do.

Regarding opening day, even when fishing urban/suburban streams it is not difficult to avoid people if that is the way that one prefers to fish. I do so and always have by fishing between the stocking points, not at the stocking points. Fish a long, fast riffle/run with nymphs or spinners or Rebels and you will almost have an entire stretch to yourself.
 
Mike wrote:Exercise is critical to maintaining immunity, reducing stress, and encouraging forms of good health. In the long run it reduces the burden on the medical system and insurance system, and if practiced by everyone would greatly reduce insurance rates. I am betting that at this time it is being encouraged with the idea of improving or maintaining immunity and enhancing mental health.
Click to expand...

You beat me to it! Avoiding outdoor recreational "active" activities is just wrong-headed for the reasons Mike outlined. Just be sure to avoid crowded areas. With the possible exception of urban areas, there is always an alternative to your Plan A. Be creative.

There are other things an individual can do to improve their immune function. Aerobic exercise improves overall health, reduces stress, and can provide some much needed socializing (at a safe distance). Eating a nutrient rich diet that's low in refined sugar (especially high fructose corn syrup) also helps improve health and immunity. Movement circulates lymphatic fluid, also improving pathogen resistance. THat's one of the reasons sitting all day is so harmful. It did not stop being harmful just because of the pandemic.

Bottom line, if you all really want to pull your weight and help your others, sharpen the saw! Get your mental, physical, emotional and spiritual self right. Then get off your computer and get out in the sun! Vitamin D boosts immune function.

There is a good deal of fear mongering, especially by the media. This is a serious pandemic. However, it's generating additional fear because we can't get away form COVID-19 reporting. Accuweather has a COVID-19 map! To make that worse, the map is wildly misleading. Look at threat link. Notice all the burgundy circles. Zoom in on NEPA and compare it to NYC. Lackawanna county has 179 cases while NYC has 67,551. Yet, they are the same color. At a glance, one would assume NEPA has a similar outbreak to NYC.

That is typical new "look at me" fear mongering, IMO.

The J-curve we are now seeing was anticipated. It is due to more people being tested, not just more infected. Look more deeply into the information being presented. What are the infection, death and recovery RATES?

Fear is the enemy. Avoid getting infected by practicing sensible precautions. Holing up at home and shaking in your slippers is just making a bad situation worse. If you are in a high risk group (like my in-laws), get help with groceries, etc. (as my wife is doing for her parents).

Think....and live!
 
I get the get out thing, but as crazy as it sounds, wearing or at least having a mask with you while fishing anywhere but TOTALLY alone isn’t a bad idea. Or maybe bring a machete or chainsaw with you, as I expect there will be a need to blaze a few new trails if people REALLY intend to social distance while fishing.

I can think of more than a few places with trails that are narrow with obstacles that prevent two people from passing by each other 6 feet apart. Many creeks I frequent have narrow footpaths. If you want to walk around someone it isn’t easy or it's impossible without someone being willing to backtrack quite a bit.

Then there are places like Lyman Lake that attracts many anglers and is stocked with trout. The most popular spot is along Lyman Run Road that has a narrow trail with the lake on one side and a high hill on the other. It is impossible to walk past someone there and stay 6 feet apart unless you try and walk up the hill which is all but straight up, walk out on one the trails back to the road and walk around (I can’t see that happening) or swim…

…and everybody can’t fit on the fishing dock.

So in addition to having the crowded “honey hole problem”, you have a “getting to ANY fishing spot problem” and the “limited fishing spots” problem.

I wonder how that will all shake out on Opening Day?

I actually talked myself out of going to a local lake to do a little "sittin' and fishin' because I NEVER had a person do anything but walk two feet away from me because it's a pain and a challenge to walk around…

…and in the mood I’m in, I really wouldn’t want to be the person who p!$$e$ me off by walking too close!!

Bottom line, I honestly don’t expect the usual A-holes to social distance during crowded conditions on popular waterways and I feel the PFBC really blew this in their desperation have a quasi-normal stocked trout experience and Opening Day.

The PFBC and/or the DCNR really should asses some of the situations I describe which will not allow social distancing and close those bodies of waters to fishing for the time being and chalk-up that fact they are already stocked with fish to being stupid and ill prepared.

As for me, I am avoiding places like that for the foreseeable future which sucks but I have zero faith in some of the jerks out there who put a couple of stupid fish above everything else.
 
You pretty much nailed it. As sad as it sounds the options are pretty clear. Go fish illegally like groups of others are doing and get your fishing in for the spring. Or abide by the opening day rules and most likely not fish at all this "trout season". Tough spot to be in, watching others break the law with highly likely zero punishment. While your $31 you spent to allow you to do the same burns away.

As for the whole exercise thing, how groups and groups of bicyclists are any different then groups and groups of fisherman is beyond me. So I dont get that arguement. Last time i checked the average calories burned for an average male, weighing 190 pounds (86 kg) is 157 Calories for 30 minutes of fishing. I dont know about you, but my fishing days are usually 400+ minutes.
 
Mute, group rides of which I am aware have been cancelled around these parts for the very reason that you indicate. As for me, I have either been riding by myself or with my wife and that has been true for each road rider and mountain biker that I have seen on the streets and woodland trails, respectively. Riders have been alone or with one other person...usually a man and woman riding together if a second person has been involved.

It is also true, as you may also be referencing, that rail trails have been seeing such usage now that avoiding them has become a consideration. We have in fact been avoiding one based on the number of cars that we have been seeing at a particular, usually low use parking lot. Instead of using the rail trail to exit town, we have been using the now low traffic streets, which may even be safer than the trails at the moment.
 
Mike, understood. Trust me biking\riding\walking\distancing\getting out in nature all makes sense. Im just trying to make a correlation that every morning when I get up I see 30 cars parked along side the road by next to a closed down park. All with everyone getting out next to each other, talking etc. Along with groups of people ending up inside the park anyway. It seems like thats going against the whole "stop grouping up in the park, thats why its closed off" concept.
 
mute wrote:
Last time i checked the average calories burned for an average male, weighing 190 pounds (86 kg) is 157 Calories for 30 minutes of fishing. I dont know about you, but my fishing days are usually 400+ minutes.
Click to expand...

I once wore a step counter thing that was coupled to a GPS app in my phone. It was on a day where I hiked/fished about 5 miles on a rough/remote stream that involved roughly 400 ft of elevation gain, over about 10 hours. I don't remember exactly, but it said I burned roughly 5500 calories. I have no idea how accurate those things are. I'm 6'0 / 180, FWIW. There are streams I fish where the daily hiking distance (not all of it is fishing) and elevation gain are double that of the one I wore the step counter thing on. Depends on where/how you fish.

 
mute wrote:
You pretty much nailed it. As sad as it sounds the options are pretty clear. Go fish illegally like groups of others are doing and get your fishing in for the spring. Or abide by the opening day rules and most likely not fish at all this "trout season". Tough spot to be in, watching others break the law with highly likely zero punishment. While your $31 you spent to allow you to do the same burns away.
Click to expand...
The funny thing is, the cost of a license and my ability to "cash in" on Opening Day is a non issue.

I don't do Opening Day and I don't harvest fish (mainly because toting them around with me it is a hassle I don't want to deal with).

My only regret is, despite my preference for smaller wild trout streams, prior to all of this I HAD planned to fish a couple Stocked Trout Waters near my home after the Opening Day crush. Some would have been new spots, others old familiar haunts but I was excited at the prospect.

However, the threat of crowds, no in season stocking to up the fish count (when it would be appreciated by me later in the spring) and the warming of water temps if I wait too long to avoid the crowds; probably means it isn't going to happen.

My desires and expenditures aside, I just think the PFBC is being stupid, hypocritical and unwilling to make unpopular decisions because at this point, they don't have to.

It reminds me of a social club I go to that refused to cancel an early St. Patrick's' Day event for 150+ people "because they didn't have to" with the rules in place at that point in time.

So they had their party with a self serve buffet, meaning salt & pepper shakers, dishes, silverware in stacks and bins for everybody to touch while clubs and venues all around them were cancelling events of the same size & type because it was "the right & responsible thing to do".

Did anybody get sick because of that party?

I don't know and doubt anyone will admit to it if they did.

Will anybody get sick because thousands of morons will crowd places on Opening Day?

I don't know and doubt anyone will admit to it if they did.
 
Opening day is a different animal. I have a bad feeling about the crowds, and that's before the pandemic. It's certainly not the same as a solo fishing outing in a remote area.

Regarding the excessive gathering at parks, that's not good and predictable considering so many are at home rather than at work. It can be done, but in that can be an abundance of caution is called for.
 
The shutdown of the state was a response to COVID19 when it was thought it would "burn off" like the flu does every year. The shutdown was for a week then 2 weeks, and then a month. Now that it seems it will not burn off why we are sticking to the same plan. Seems to me the plan has to change.

Slowing the spread does nothing to get us through this. It simply keeps us in it for longer. When do we start living with this. 95% are going to be fine if we get sick. If your in the 5% then stay home, don't go to work, don't go fishing, don't visit your family, and wear face masks when you go out to hoard TP.

Days off for our healthcare workers is not a concern of mine. I have a stressful job and I've worked multiple jobs for years straight without a day off. They are better off then everybody sitting at home who want to work but can't. Those are the ones I worry about.

So the question remains, how long do we continue with a plan whose origin began on a Theory that seems to have been proven wrong. I think most will agree that we cannot continue for months or years. At this time we need to all make our own decisions as to going out to fish, work or whatever. Personally, I could care less if you social distance or not. It takes two or more mutually agreeable people to violate social distancing. everybody knows the risks. I will continue to social distance myself and I'm confident I can do that at work, on the river, in my car or riding a bike.

With a morbid death toll being constantly counted and watched by the panic stricken, I don't see the social distancing changing anytime soon. We need to end this charade of a lockdown now and allow every individual to access their own risk and act accordingly.

Government has never solved a damn thing. The American work force is more capable of figuring out ways to live and work with COVID19. History has shown us that the workforce will spur innovation and prevention techniques 10 times faster then any government carpet bagger can.
 
poopdeck wrote:
The shutdown of the state was a response to COVID19 when it was thought it would "burn off" like the flu does every year. The shutdown was for a week then 2 weeks, and then a month. Now that it seems it will not burn off why we are sticking to the same plan. Seems to me the plan has to change.

Slowing the spread does nothing to get us through this. It simply keeps us in it for longer. When do we start living with this. 95% are going to be fine if we get sick. If your in the 5% then stay home, don't go to work, don't go fishing, don't visit your family, and wear face masks when you go out to hoard TP.
Click to expand...

^There is not one strand of this that is accurate. The shutdowns were/are a complete and total forfeit that this would not just go away, and are in place specifically because of that fact...To weather the tide of the initial massive peak in terms of what the healthcare system can handle. IF it was thought the healthcare system could handle that wave of sick people, we wouldn't have shut down.

It's a fairly simple fact that if the healthcare system is overwhelmed in any location, at any point in time, MORE people will die who otherwise wouldn't. You're seeing this in NYC right now to a degree. Would have been way worse without a shutdown though. There's a chance you will see it other major metro areas in the next week...The latest data suggests the shutdown/SD is affecting the curves, and possibly lowering their peaks. In most areas to a level that the system can possibly manage. Let's hope so.

Unless your only objective is to get through this as FAST as possible, at the expense of additional lives, you cannot say slowing the spread does nothing. For a history lesson, read the Wikipedia article on the Spanish flu comparing Philadelphia's response to that of St. Louis. Same disease, same time, very different approach in terms of how it was handled, very different outcomes.

As far as trusting Americans to assess their own risk? I'd love to agree and think we could do that accurately. Rewind a couple weeks to the St. Patty's day bar parties and Spring Break in FL. Mardi Gras in New Orleans.
 
As far as trusting Americans to assess their own risk? I'd love to agree and think we could do that accurately. Rewind a couple weeks to the St. Patty's day bar parties and Spring Break in FL. Mardi Gras in New Orleans.
I agree. Just watch the flare up of C19 after April 7 in Pa. Here in Florida the boat ramps are open and people are out on the water in droves. Getting there means a crowded boat ramp and there goes social distancing. Georgia's open beach directive,etc. This will get a lot worse, I hate to say. GG
 
I'm somewhat amazed but not surprised that the purpose of the shutdown is not clearly understood and accepted. Even if its a bitter pill to some individuals. I guess the "it will never happen to me attitude is very strong" and takes over a person's thought process. The better we follow the guidlines the sooner we can get back to "normal", which definitely will be different than the old normal until a vaccine has been created. If we don't follow the guidelines we run the risk of creating new hot spots, possibly in locations ill prepared to handle them. Stay safe everyone and enjoy your day as best you can !
 
AndyP wrote:
I'm somewhat amazed but not surprised that the purpose of the shutdown is not clearly understood and accepted. Even if its a bitter pill to some individuals. I guess the "it will never happen to me attitude is very strong" and takes over a person's thought process. The better we follow the guidlines the sooner we can get back to "normal", which definitely will be different than the old normal until a vaccine has been created. If we don't follow the guidelines we run the risk of creating new hot spots, possibly in locations ill prepared to handle them. Stay safe everyone and enjoy your day as best you can !
Click to expand...

There's a strong sense among some of the population that they are immune. Or that people that get this are weak. They apparently do not read about the 30 somethings that are healthy and are now dead. There is some of that sentiment posted here on this board. Personal "rights" are more important than personal responsibility in not being a potential carrier and not creating a crowd.

The belief that because this thing didn't burn itself out after two weeks, that we should just relax everything immediately is a recipe for disaster. I can't count how fortunate I am that the timing of this went down as our students went on spring break, and rather than bringing back 100,000 students from around the world, as well as faculty who travel around the world, we went virtual. It was tense as it was, having some folks back on campus, knowing (two weeks after the fact) that the first confirmed case happened to be someone that my group interacted with. But you mix many asymptomatic carriers of this together in a university environment, and then you have to figure out how to safely get everyone out of the university environment when the mushroom cloud of contagion hits, and that is a major problem. So fortunately, we avoided major contamination potential, just because of the timing of spring break. We didn't majorly contribute to the disease curve or use up hospital beds with our constituents.

If our state and our country don't hit the number of cases and deaths predicted, that is a good thing, not an accomplishment to be skewered.

GG - there is a reason that the models predict FL as one of the last states peaking...
 
Lots of good points in this thread, and valid ones on each side of the fence. I recently posted some pics to Instagram of a short trip I made to Berks County to chase wild browns. It wasn't a far drive, but I was chastised by a friend who is a law enforcement officer in a local jurisdiction in Lancaster County for partaking in a "non-essential activity" and "making up my own rules", etc. The point is that people who are strictly adhering to the "Stay-at-home" order view outdoor activities differently than those of us who participate in them. I love to run and I have posted pics of various runs I've done. All of my outdoor activities are practiced using social distancing and quite honestly, the fewer people I see, the better. People who don't have a passion for outdoor activities are more than happy to stay locked in their homes each day.

I've gone back-and-forth on the issue of fishing during this pandemic and have found myself on each side of the fence. To me it's not a "black and white" issue, even though the activity is explicitly permitted by the state. My gut tells me that banning fishing at this critical time of the year would have been too much of a lightning rod to deal with, so the PFBC and Commonwealth crafted guidelines to make it as safe as possible (we see how well that worked out). In my opinion outdoor exercise that is cardiovasucular in nature is different than fishing. For most people, fishing is a sedentary activity. For many of us fly folk, we cover lots of water and do plenty of walking. Yes, it's walking and it's exercise, but not for a majority of the people who are participating in it.

I found the below-linked article interesting because it is one of the few places I have found that explicitly states fishing is permissible. As an educational tool, I shared it to my Facebook page with an excerpt stating such. But there is a perception in the midst of a global pandemic that fishing is not a "life sustaining" activity, and let's face it, for most of us, that is true. I will continue with my own internal struggles on this issue as I try to figure out what the "right" course of action is. In summary, I suppose if I find myself conflicted, then I know what the answer is, even if I don't want to accept it.

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/troopers-wont-just-warn-violators-about-gov-wolfs-coronavirus-stay-at-home-order-forever-psp-official-says.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=pennlive_sf&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR3l1Yu-jCklX2b104RXfv4KRTMoD4mdAOHBJZ454zxyjL2YZqakyqetAz4

"Fishing is an allowable activity, although social distancing should be practiced with other anglers, Price said. And, he said it is advisable 'to engage in those activities close to home.' "
 
I have been locked down for the longest in this state. I know exactly why the shut down started. I know exactly why it started as a week in a couple of counties and progressed to the insanity it is now. It was assumed the virus would burn off AND they wanted to slow the spread until that time.

It's time for the insanity to end. It's time for the 95% this will have little effect on to get back to work and life in general. If your in the high risk group then you may choose to shelter in place. If your employer does not institute proper hygiene practices at work then your free to stay home. If you don't follow your workplace protocol then your employer is free to send you home, without compensation. If your scared to death because you have been watching death counts 24/7 then your free to stay home. If you feel someone is not practicing social distancing then you are free to step back. If your worried about healthcare workers getting a day off then your free to stay home. Those who want to work or need to work should be free to do just that. Everybody who poo poos this idea is free to stay home.

To think your helping or preventing anything by not going fishing is silly. i have been out fishing a couple times now and somehow managed to not contact or spread the virus. I was able to do this with very little effort. The fact that I may have touched a tree that someone may touch later is nothing more then a big what if.

Get out and enjoy fishing. Hopefully it will prove to some that life can and will go on quite normally and without increased risk.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Harman's North Fork Cottages


Real Time Data From
the USGS Site

Share this page

Back
Top