Fly Fishing, The Internet, and SpotBurning

[FarmerDave]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I just wanna know once you take fly fishing off the internet, where you buying your gear? ????

Yard sales and flea markets. ;-)

 

[Acristickid]

I’ve definitely picked up fishing spots and waters from here and other sites.

The big four are always pretty busy but I can definitely say the lil j has more traffic than 15 years ago.

This site has nothing on Facebook.

 

[Mike]

I think the “spot burning” fear regarding wild trout streams is way overblown. There are occasional exceptions for one reason or another where caution is probably prudent.

The vast majority of anglers are not going to bother to chase some stream down that has not been written up in a multitude of forms or publications. Really serious anglers who are out there exploring are not that common across the spectrum of trout anglers, but they appear to be much more common here.

Even when the exploring has already been done for them, anglers don’t often readily take advantage of it. Just think of the number of times that someone asks for some streams to fish in an area to which he or she is traveling for a weekend and then says after the trip that he/she never made it out to fish. I’ve even referred friends and relatives to very good fisheries close to home and some never bothered to go, or because they had one bad day the first time there they never returned.

On the job across the state and during my own fishing I almost never (it’s true!) have or had seen an angler on a strictly wild trout stream except for the famous ones. So when the low use/ low harvest results of the statewide wild trout streams angler use and harvest survey came back, I was not surprised.

I am pretty stingy with the locations where private property anglers are willing to give access, however. I don’t want to impose on their good graces.

 

[MKern]

The lurking int eh stream reports thing always got me.
Yeah they are garnering information from here, but mostly its common sense. This stream has fish (duh) and the fish were hungry (duh) and they ate these flies (duh).

Doesn't mean that those results can be replicated by someone who can read the stream report.

Maybe it means an extra body on the stream. However, I wager that if they can catch fish, they don't need someone to tell them where to go.

 

[afishinado]

Mike wrote:
I think the “spot burning” fear regarding wild trout streams is way overblown. The vast majority of anglers are not going to bother to chase some stream down that has not been written up in a multitude of forms or publications. Really serious anglers who are out there exploring are not that common across the spectrum of trout anglers, but they appear to be much more common here.

Just think of the number of times that someone asks for some streams to fish in an area to which he or she is traveling for a weekend and then says after the trip that he/she never made it out to fish. I’ve even referred friends and relatives to very good fisheries close to home and some never bothered to go. Serious anglers are thankful for the tips and take advantage of them.

On the job across the state and during my own fishing I almost never (it’s true!) have or had seen an angler on a strictly wild trout stream except for the famous ones. So when the low use/ low harvest results of the statewide wild trout streams angler use and harvest survey came back, I was not surprised.

I am pretty stingy with the locations where private property anglers are willing to give access, however. I don’t want to impose on their good graces.

Good point about private property owners ^ Many stream sections are open to fishing by the kindness of private landowners. Before anyone declares open access to any stream, ask the landowner if it's okay to post their location on the Internet for all to read.

The long and short of this whole conversation is to just use good judgement.

The Internet and forums in particular are a great source of all kinds of info from like-minded individuals.

PAFF has many really great FFers that post on here. Many on here that do some great things for conservation as well as help out FFers and all people in general.

I enjoy the site and read it every day, even before I became a moderator for the site. I've gotten and given a lot of info over the years and enjoyed every minute of it.

Two decades of posting on PAFF has allowed me to meet hundreds of great folks that are members, and dozens of these folks I can trully call friends. Not bad, huh.

 

[k-bob]

I like to try new streams, so I often fish places that are tiny, dont really fish that well, have never seen another fisherman out doing that. Would be surprised.

A few times lately I hit relatively well known small streams right by roads to save time or because they got some rain in current low flows. Still didn't see anyone, in fact met a bear .

I am sure that some great looking pools of small streams on public land that you can see from a road get cropped. Beyond that, I guess there's not much pressure and little harvest in most very small streams... the ones that are maybe 10 feet wide or less. I do see the unusual fire ring w grill left by some brookie streams but not very often.

I recently fished Rattlesnake Creek in Monroe County... I'm sure other people have fished on that stream in that game land but I would have been shocked run to somebody there fishing in that rhodo.. it really doesn't fish that well it's tiny I just wanted to go someplace different

That being said, there are places that fish well that I dont want to mention online... one person who ignores the harvest regs? A two hour drive and 45 min walk to fish behind someone? Def not repeating anything someone else told me here have no business doing that...

Overall the landis book and long state class a and nat repro lists probably just spread out the relatively small number of small stream anglers so we dont bump into each other except rarely on the better and better known small streams.

 

[FarmerDave]

MKern wrote:
The lurking int eh stream reports thing always got me.
Yeah they are garnering information from here, but mostly its common sense. This stream has fish (duh) and the fish were hungry (duh) and they ate these flies (duh).

Doesn't mean that those results can be replicated by someone who can read the stream report.

Maybe it means an extra body on the stream. However, I wager that if they can catch fish, they don't need someone to tell them where to go.

I'm guessing that was "inspired" by my post. Believe it or not, I agree.

Especially the part about it's mostly common sense. Of course it is.

Not only about where to fish, but how to fish and what to use, etc, etc. Vast majority of times it doesn't matter, and I have never had a problem telling people what worked for me. That always got me. Isn't "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?" the fish don't care, so why should I.

Anyway, maybe some missed my point, so I'll spell it out.

I do think people should be cautious about naming certain streams in a public forum. You could argue that it doesn't matter for you if I name your favorite tiny mountain stream. Doesn't really matter much to me if you do the same for one of mine if it is on public land. Why? Several reasons, all of which are based on common sense.

But it no doubt matters to some people, right? Why shouldn't I respect that? Doesn't matter if you or I think it shouldn't matter. You mentioned maybe it means another body on a stream. There are several people on here who seek out fishing in solitude. Seeing another person on a tiny stream would spoil that.

I challenge anyone to find a case where I complained about any individual stream report. I simply do not do that.

There are at least two sides to every coin. Common sense indeed.

“Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire

Next question for everyone.

Would you be able to fly fish without the help of the innertubes? I know I could, but as long as it is here, I have no problem taking advantage of it.;-)

Afish said it well in post 45. I couldn't agree more with that one.

 

[Bamboozle]

afishinado wrote:
Good point about private property owners ^ Many stream sections are open to fishing by the kindness of private landowners. Before anyone declares open access to any stream, ask the landowner if it's okay to post their location on the Internet for all to read.

^^^^ in spades!!

I fish a bunch of Class A & Natural Reproduction streams that are 100% on private property and NOT posted. I do everything I can to show my appreciation to try and keep it that way, but I also can't tell you how many times I cringe when I see those same streams mentioned on the Internet.

How frikkin stupid can you be???

As for me giving out location information, just call me Sgt. Shultz; "I know nothing..."

As far as spot burning in general, I chalk it all up to the self-aggrandizement and fascination with celebrity that so prevalent on the Internet today.

It is the same type of doofus that commits a crime but has to post a video of it on Facebook because they want to be famous...

 

[gulfgreyhound]

+1 Afish
Spot burning is like GPS numbers shared with family and really close friends.
Worst deal is to pull up and find a strange boat on a number then get a wave from a "friend" on the strange boat. He got spot burned or banned from any boat in the family. Then the rectus asked
"why"?
GG

 

[troutbert]

The places that are crowded with flyfishers are almost always special regulations areas.

It's rare to see crowds of flyfishers on general regs streams.

That's true now. And it was true 50 years ago.

 

[larkmark]

Sgt Schultz....good one!

I know nothing!

 

[maxima12]

All right, that's it, I don't buy it, I don't regret it! I have a purpose too!
I want everyone to enjoy all that I have! I want all to get involved, meet and greet, Be you, don't worry the fools will be sorted out! Give it "all you got". Let's talk in a realistic venue on Spot burning! I am not like many, i am like me. I want you to enjoy all i have to offer because my offer has no payback. I want you to fish where i fish, i do not mind seeing you, frankly, i will bow out, give you the hole, give you the fly, give you the leader. Some might have seen this but i doubt it. My fishing is with regular people. Regular, is the key! Being regular gives you the most chances of success! I would gladly give you details of ,who, what, when, where! All the fish in Pa. are not mine! Your ideas will never be mine without a fight!
Fish are not mine, they are for everyone. And by the way, keep your money. #@.00 bucks for a pa. license! I spend more than that in a week on popsicles and smokes!

Do you want me to go on! You all play it safe, I will only be safe, when i am gone! The big picture of a low percent, is the picture i will not look at! My turn, Pa. is for all, Not just for you!


Be you and take it away, like always, tired of thre truth!

 

[allthingsfishing]

To quote Yogi Berra. "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded".

 

[k-bob]

Anyone have access to the study below? I wonder which streams and what was found

 

[LetortAngler]

I lean toward the internet being mostly good for the sport as well. This site and the other various fly fishing pages are a few examples of the good that has come from it.

Present day social media though, imo, is a mixed bag. There is now a ton of YouTubers, Bloggers, and FaceBook Pages promoting smaller streams. I don’t really have a problem with it, but I know folks who do. Has this contributed to smaller streams being overpressued or even poached? I think it happens, but not as often as I probably think it does.

My rule of thumb is this - If it isn’t navigable, and I had to ask permission to fish - I won’t publicize it. On a few occasions I’ve even had landowners tell me just that. “Enjoy the fishing, if you don’t mind just don’t publicize it, don’t need the crowds showing up”.

 

[Jessed]

I’d have to say it’s helpful for people to learn at a faster rate, I got myself into fly fishing at a young age (13) now 20. No one I knew fly fished so I had to teach myself everything, YouTube and this form basically got me where I am today. I’m still leaning absolutely but those two things got me to a point where I feel I can be confident fishing. I also play guitar and I feel things are similar when it comes to learning techniques. Before the internet you had to figure it out without the recourses. Now you can learn just about anything extremely fast. YouTube especially can be a fishing guide.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Thats one of the issues i heard blubbered here years ago.
The learning curve is less and thus knowledge is not earned.
I guess that somehow ruined fly fishing or something dumb like that.

Christ ive had fly fishers complain the same stupid rhetoric over a rig i posted.

If gaining knowledge easier and faster means you didnt earn it...

Then our freedom wasnt earned, some of us didnt bleed on a battlefield somewhere or that degree you got from a paper you wrote while citing online resource, is a sham because you didnt go to the library and dig endlessly through a trash heap of papers to find it.

Its ridiculous.
People just like to complain.

Im not saying give up your spots. Im saying at this point the arguement takes ot to a whole new level. It does everytime.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Moreover, dwights spot on.
Ive been accussed of spot burning. Apparently it ruined a creek.
I still go there and catch hog fish and no one is there. Go figure.

 

[FarmerDave]

maxima12 wrote:
All right, that's it, I don't buy it, I don't regret it! I have a purpose too!
I want everyone to enjoy all that I have! I want all to get involved, meet and greet, Be you, don't worry the fools will be sorted out! Give it "all you got". Let's talk in a realistic venue on Spot burning! I am not like many, i am like me. I want you to enjoy all i have to offer because my offer has no payback. I want you to fish where i fish, i do not mind seeing you, frankly, i will bow out, give you the hole, give you the fly, give you the leader. Some might have seen this but i doubt it. My fishing is with regular people. [color=660000]Regular, is the key! Being regular gives you the most chances of success![/color] I would gladly give you details of ,who, what, when, where! All the fish in Pa. are not mine! Your ideas will never be mine without a fight!
Fish are not mine, they are for everyone. And by the way, keep your money. #@.00 bucks for a pa. license! I spend more than that in a week on popsicles and smokes!

Do you want me to go on! You all play it safe, I will only be safe, when i am gone! The big picture of a low percent, is the picture i will not look at! My turn, Pa. is for all, Not just for you!

Be you and take it away, like always, tired of thre truth!

Ever consider doing an outmeal commercial? ;-)

 

[FarmerDave]

troutbert wrote:
The places that are crowded with flyfishers are almost always special regulations areas.

It's rare to see crowds of flyfishers on general regs streams.

That's true now. And it was true 50 years ago.

I agree 100%, and have said so many times. And this is the main reason that I avoid special regs waters.

But fly anglers are what percentage of all anglers? ;-)

HOWEVER...

I grew up in NWPA, where class A waters were few and far between. When the list first came out, there was a total of two streams in Venango county on the list, and none in Forest County. Also none in Clarion County where I actually grew up.

As word got out about the class A list, those two streams became defacto "special" but without the special regs. The same can be said about wilderness trout stream listings, to some extent.

And by the way, I am pretty sure both of those Class A are on private land although one now has deeded public easement. It didn't back then. How many of you know exactly what stream I am speaking of? Where did you learn of it? How many of you have fished it as a result? I learned about it because I lived near there. I could rest my case right there, but won't.

Since that time, I see that a handful of small streams have been added to Venango and Forest counties, and still none on Clarion County. No surprise there.

Don't take that as a complaint. It isn't, at least not anymore. I'm only stating my observation, and I pride myself in being adaptable. I actually find value in the special regs listings. It tells me where not to go when I want to insure solitude. I also hate all the signs mucking up the natural setting. Like Maxi, I'm a regular guy who fishes with regular people on regular streams. Special regs are for special people. ;-)

Note: I suspect making public the class A list did little to nothing to increase pressure in areas where the lists are long. If it did, it was probably very short lived. But it is my opinion that it did in areas where they are few and far between. I've said often that I think it is a mistake to lump all of PA into a single bucket. I see it so often on here.

Who hasn't seen people state on this site that smallmounth, or musky or even walleye are not native to PA. News flash, it is a big and diverse state with life west of the divide, deplorable as it may be.;-)