Fly Fishing, The Internet, and SpotBurning

The internet has done more good than bad.

It has opened up techniques, learning and sharing like never before.

I do think it has had a large hand in the need to "keep up with the Jones's."

I could see it having an impact of local fly shops. However, they might have been short sighted business dinosaurs that were reluctant to see change coming and embrace it; or those that were exposed for gouging their customers which was highlighted by the competition of online shopping. (Granted some shops closing was a direct result of larger retailers being able to strong-arm the manufactures for their discounts that small shops did not benefit from).
 
I would bet most people on here have tried a new stream based on stumbling across it here (would make for an interesting poll). I know I have, many times, even in other states. So it feels right to return the favor occasionally, though I admit there are a few spots that I would never share online, either because other people with more local knowledge asked me not to, or because they are truly top-notch spots that have somehow stayed under the radar and I enjoy easy fishing. I would also add that streams on private land should never be mentioned, out of respect for the land owners.

IMO most of the best trout populations are already well known, at least in SC/SE PA. Some of that is absolutely due to the internet. Big Spring comes to mind as discussions here and elsewhere garnered statewide attention a few years back - I had never heard of it before then. Does it mean these spots are "ruined"? I think in most cases the number of fish stays pretty stable, they just get harder to catch, giving the perception of being "ruined". Good streams reach that level of attention for a reason, something about the habitat and water temps and bug life elevates the quality of the trout population no matter how much people fish it.

Or you may show up at your favorite section of your favorite "unknown" stream and find another angler ahead of you. Frustrating, for sure - but why do we rush to judgment that they found the spot because of internet spot burning, and why do we assume they are an inferior angler to ourselves and that they don't deserve to know about that spot?

When it comes to small streams, they also get less attention for a reason. They only have so many fish, and they only have room and food to grow to a certain size. Yes, that leaves them vulnerable to exploitation, but in my experience only the best 20% or so of small streams will actually fish well enough for a first-time visitor to consider returning. A lot of people do not enjoy fighting brush to catch 6-8" fish. You can name some small streams and they will get more attention, but whether they hold that attention long term is another story entirely. True small stream junkies are just one small subset of anglers.

I personally don't think it is healthy for the sport if we intentionally hide many streams and focus pressure onto the few best streams or on stocked streams. When new anglers enter the sport, the internet tells them about these places first. They go there to find other anglers, pressured fish, and end up having a lesser experience. They might lose interest before they realize that there are 10 "secret" wild trout streams that fish very well within a 15 mile radius of that crowded stream that was unenjoyable. So we need to share some spots, but do it responsibly. I prefer taking people to new streams in person, but at the same time, I've never seen pressure from the internet cause crowds on a specific stream to such an extent that the stream is "ruined" forever.

I also believe the internet has brought more awareness to proper fish handling and the importance of checking the water temperature, and serves as a platform for conservation organizations to recruit new members.
 
Couple comments:

I agree with Jessed about the PFBC commission burning spots that had to be fished and explored (still do, I know) but it does take the guess work out of many that I worked hard to collect for myself over years. Books like Keystone that give so much precise info on parking not fishing also get under my skin.

If I am being honest with myself, though, it is more about my spots. In other words, I get most defensive and protective about my spots. And I think many of us are hypocrites in the same way. I don't want YouTubers naming Class A trickles online, as some used to do, but when I went to the Laurel Highlands on a family vacation this summer, I used the Keystone book to find a spot to fish, which was someone's spot and probably didn't want me there.
 
Have I ever gone to a stream based off of seeing something on a forum? Yes. A bunch of times. Some places I liked, some I didn't.

Have I ever seen a spot I used to frequent mentioned very specifically on a forum (not this one), seen page views of that post go into the thousands, then seen traffic to that spot increase a ton & decide to stop going there? Yes, more than once.

I think that the people who doubt the internet's effect on traffic to certain areas are naïve to its power.
 
sarce wrote:


Big Spring comes to mind as discussions here and elsewhere garnered statewide attention a few years back - I had never heard of it before then.


A few years back? As anyone who stood elbow to elbow on the Ditch can tell you, Big Spring was one of the best known streams in Commonwealth long before the internet. It, along with the Letort, was being written about as a "destination" stream in national sporting journals as far back as 1830. That's when you needed to go by stagecoach to get there -- and people did. Charles Fox wrote about it extensively in his books (which should be required reading for anyone fishing the Cumberland Valley.) The state record brown was caught there in the 1940's. I knew about it in the 60's, decades before I was old enough to drive there. And when it finally dawned on me that I was now old enough to drive there, if I hadn't already known about it, all I would have needed to bring it light was a quick glance at the fishing regulations to notice that it was regulated as trophy trout water. It's the perfect example of a stream where the internet has changed nothing.
 
I know that Big Spring was well known long ago, but I only discovered that after learning about it here first. There were endless debates about the habitat improvement work a few years ago. The talk on PAFF of the brook trout rebound made me decide to fish it. More of a personal example than anything else, sorry if that was not clear. I do believe the internet brought a wave of people to that stream who were focused on large brook trout, even if it already had gotten a lot of attention when it was more of a hatchery supported stream. But because it is such a great stream to begin with, the attention did nothing to harm the fishery, as you noted. And yet there were forum members who were very unhappy about the sudden increase in pressure.
 
Well, Farmer Dave and rleep2, this discussion is certainly less acrimonious than discussions about this same topic were in the past -- and I am keeping out of it.
 
The internet has made both fly fishing spots and fly fishing techniques much more readily accessible to the women who fly fish. They are not hooked into the mostly male ff community, where this info is shared. I know that I have learned a lot from the internet and have found some wonderful places to fish. It takes more time and effort than you think, but is well worth the effort.
 
The internet has taken "The think out of thought". Fun using it, need it as a useful tool in selling, yes! Need it in order to sell, No. Useful in all ways to quickly, get your fix! I don't have to think about it, I got it, internet will show me. I sit and browse the internet, while my face turns to plaster! In time I will be a disaster! I rise from my chair and scream "Faster". I have become the servant of the "Master". The thoughts in my mind have only become "Vaster".

Do I need it, actually, no. Will it make me a better fisherman, no. Will it make me tie flies better, no. Will it show me the way to great streams, no.

What I am saying here, internet can do, not one simple thing, I can see and visualize but I must do all by "me". Internet will never do it for me. I have to do it myself!

So, I will have to get up, get ready and go fishing. Guess I will pass by all those streams in my travel because I am going to the one posted on the internet. Now, the fellow that acted like a movie star on YouTube, well you not getting a Grammy! You gave us all a "whammy". The streams I passed, I found out "were the best".

Should have relied on I and not the other I.
Instinct, yes.------Internet, no.
 
rrt wrote:
Well, Farmer Dave and rleep2, this discussion is certainly less acrimonious than discussions about this same topic were in the past -- and I am keeping out of it.

LOL!

You know I thought of you when I saw this thread. I even had typed out a message saying I'll just wait for rrt to respond and agree with him. But I decided it was best to not submit it.
 
Internet pressure has wrecked a number of small streams I used to frequent, and I have heard a number of guides complaining that the amount of drift boats on the West Branch is now greater than ever. I think that the internet has done wonders for teaching tactics and techniques, but the spot burning has been bad overall. Nowhere worse than surf fishing in NJ, where internet pressure has resulted in access losses.
 
Yep I agree, it’s both laughable and sad to me when I read people bloviating info.
 
SurfCowboyXX wrote:
...I have heard a number of guides complaining that the amount of drift boats on the West Branch is now greater than ever....

I suggest they find another place to float or guide. Oh, do they want the West Branch for themselves?

Damn the Internet!
 
I'd rather let 10 drift boats pass by on the Yough, than to have one local, who thinks he owns the stream, start casting to the same rising fish that I am.
 
And finally, as much he wannabe, he ain't no Hank.
 
This topic always cracks me up.

Lets pick a topic that both sides cant be wrong in and then have at it.

Im sorry but ive met people here and streamside that know me from here and its always been positive imo. Bad and good.

This website alone has helped and touched so many people. Just stare into one of DW's letort paintings and tell me he dont get who you really are.

I vote no matter what you say, fisherman reaching eachother through the internet or otherwise is a good thing. It can have life changing effects.

A side effect can be spot burning.

Killing the disease is better than the side effects, or watch the sport die in total.
 
I just wanna know once you take fly fishing off the internet, where you buying your gear? ????
 
salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I just wanna know once you take fly fishing off the internet, where you buying your gear? ????
From the Orvis store about 2 miles from home. :-D
 
Touche' but
itsatrap.jpg
 
salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
This topic always cracks me up.

Lets pick a topic that both sides cant be wrong in and then have at it.

Im sorry but ive met people here and streamside that know me from here and its always been positive imo. Bad and good.

This website alone has helped and touched so many people. Just stare into one of DW's letort paintings and tell me he dont get who you really are.

I vote no matter what you say, fisherman reaching eachother through the internet or otherwise is a good thing. It can have life changing effects.

A side effect can be spot burning.

Killing the disease is better than the side effects, or watch the sport die in total.

I agree with Sal cept for maybe the last line. FFing would still be around, with or without the innertubes.

Like I said earlier, it is what it is, and I take the good with the bad.

I’ve met, and conversed with some good people on this site. That is a big plus.

But I learned about this site over 20 years ago from a guy who used to lurk the stream reports for places to fish, and he never contributed. He probably still does.

That is something to think about whenever any of you want to post specifics and then wonder why people have a problem with that. Even if it isn’t your favorite spot, it might be someone else’s.
 
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