Fishing in fall and winter (with as little impact on spawning as possible)

Silent Ocelot said:
His posts have actually made me better understand the damage the PFBC has done and the overall environmental impact that the stocking program does, so in that case it did work. I was never fully behind the stocking program and just think the amount of dedication people have for stocked fish is pretty silly. Funnier still that the post famous PA streams are fully self-sustained wild fisheries.

I will say he can be aggressive (as I can be too), but if you take into account how f***ked up the fisheries management in PA is or the lack thereof, I can understand how one could become disgruntled. Whatever your opinions are about the man, he posts factually accurate info with sources and I have not seen anyone combat and defeat his points using valid counterpoints.

I would say his posts are similar to reading Lovecraft, and no, I am not comparing FS to Lovecraft himself, just an analogy, but like with Lovecraft, once you get past the repetitive writing and lengthy descriptions you realize it is really really good writing. I just wish FS would proofread and eliminate the grammatical errors in some of his posts. That would make them easier to read and would help to make his views seem more legit (just a minor complaint). I'm a stickler for good grammar/spelling and proofread my own posts as I know I have a tendency to ramble and I want to make what I say sound coherent.

Overall I agree with FS's statement of doing a sociology study on this very thread to study the schism between fishing and conservation. That would be interesting. It is truly astounding how a century of stocking has really changed the mindset of the majority of PA anglers.
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dudemanspecial said:
How about telling a pleb like me that is concerned about the cause, but who has about a total of 15 minutes a year and very little money to do something about it, the most effective way I can spend that 15 minutes to help. Seriously, let me know and I will gladly do that.

The problem with you is instead of doing that, you come in here and blow up every post that mentions the word trout or fishing with all of this cherry picked research against the evil empire that maybe 3 people actually care about, and insulting people who spend their time fishing in accordance with the PFBC rules and regulations because they don't give a 6 inch fish much of a thought.

Do you want some statistics? The majority of the 13 million people in this state wouldn't know a brook trout from a bluegill. Hell, even the majority of fisherman in this state likely can't distinguish a brook trout from a brown trout. Hell, I bet there are people that post on this forum that can't do it either. So posting over and over again about how smart and well researched you are about our state fish to try to prove to people why they should give a damn about your cause is NOT going to work.

Your heart is in the right place, but your approach is COMPLETLY tone deaf.
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When I proof read something 50 times and prepare it for a group of people I have never talked with before it comes out much cleaner and with less emotion for a first time readership

www.flyfisherman.com

Pennsylvania Isn't Doing Enough for its Floundering Native Brook Trout - Fly Fisherman

Disjointed habitat improvements won't save Pennsylvania's brook trout. We need watershed-wide management, and we need to stop stocking invasive species.
www.flyfisherman.com www.flyfisherman.com

07EEEB1A 0A14 4294 A32C F2942D80E1FA
 
Or if I just talk in a podcast instead of type

wetflyswing.com

WFS 502 - Native Fish Coalition with James Suleski - Brook Trout, Brown Trout, Pennsylvania - Wet Fly Swing

Today we dive into the fascinating world of fishery science and conservation with James Suleski of the Pennsylvania Native Fish Coalition.
wetflyswing.com wetflyswing.com

nativefishcoalition.org

PA NFC Board Member James Suleski Talks Brook Trout with Rob Snowhite — Native Fish Coalition

Pennsylvania NFC board member Dr. James Suleski talks brook trout with Rob Snowhite on Fly Fishing Consultant podcast.…
nativefishcoalition.org nativefishcoalition.org
 
At some point in ten years I feel like I will check back on this board and the majority will all be hating on Brown Trout. Seems like some lousy new trend with flyfishers going off the deep end. We have it in politics so I guess why not with kooky flyfishermen. What a shame. The vast majority of the excellent trout fishing in PA and New York as well as other places here in the east at least is for Brown Trout. And the likelihood that Brook Trout will adapt and thrive in MANY of the waterways that have good Browns is highly unlikely. Go ahead and do whatever restoration on Brook Trout, fine but it should not be at the ruination of our wild Browns. Honestly the extremist points of view are silly. The reality is much of this states water is in a less than pristine condition. Browns adapt. Brook Trout don't.
 
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caddisflyer said:
At some point in ten years I feel like I will check back on this board and the majority will all be hating on Brown Trout. Seems like some lousy new trend with flyfishers going off the deep end. We have it in politics so I guess why not with kooky flyfishermen. What a shame. The vast majority of the excellent trout fishing in PA and New York as well as other places here in the east at least is for Brown Trout. And the likelihood that Brook Trout will adapt and thrive in MANY of the waterways that have good Brownsis highly unlikely. Go ahead and do whatever restoration on Brook Trout, fine but it should not be at the ruination of our wild Browns. Honestly the extremist points of view are silly. The reality is much of this states water is in a less than pristine condition. Browns adapt. Brook Trout don't.
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Lol extremist = stocking reform and recognizing brown trout are among the most invasive species on planet earth and paying tens of millions to stock them isn’t good for our streams? THATS extremist? Not the unbending will to not recognize that what we all love to fish for is an invasive species and Protect the environmentally destructive effects of these expensive fish because of a feeling we cannot enjoy fly fishing without them like we are all part of some cult of the brown trout a couple guys in the Cumberland valley started like almost A century ago? Who is fanatical and extreme we will let everyone decide for themselves. Don’t let the emotional tone or palpable annoyance of my writings distract you from the logic in the ideology that not paying to F up our aquatic ecosystems is a bad idea
 
caddisflyer said:
At some point in ten years I feel like I will check back on this board and the majority will all be hating on Brown Trout. Seems like some lousy new trend with flyfishers going off the deep end. We have it in politics so I guess why not with kooky flyfishermen. What a shame. The vast majority of the excellent trout fishing in PA and New York as well as other places here in the east at least is for Brown Trout. And the likelihood that Brook Trout will adapt and thrive in MANY of the waterways that have good Browns is highly unlikely. Go ahead and do whatever restoration on Brook Trout, fine but it should not be at the ruination of our wild Browns. Honestly the extremist points of view are silly. The reality is much of this states water is in a less than pristine condition. Browns adapt. Brook Trout don't.
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Also this false idea that “ruination” of brown trout fishing will occur is silly. We don’t have the ability unless tenkara fot brown trout that are 3” long in a first order stream is your Jam. And brook trout actually can adapt, thats what conservation genetics is. People just talk and garbage comes out and thats why I am here and got started to interject some facts, thats why I titled my first podcast “myths and legends” because no one listens to these scientists except me. I am not the expert THEY are I am just literate and willing to learn.

Brookk trout can adapt to many of these streams if they are connected, assisted with genetic rescue, managed intentionally and brown trout do not eliminate them therefore we should not dump more brown trout in.- there I GOT ALL THE CRAZY EXTREMIST LUNACY OUT……THATS PUBLISHED ALREADY
 
Fish Sticks said:
Also this false idea that “ruination” of brown trout fishing will occur is silly. We don’t have the ability unless tenkara fot brown trout that are 3” long in a first order stream is your Jam. And brook trout actually can adapt, thats what conservation genetics is. People just talk and garbage comes out and thats why I am here and got started to interject some facts, thats why I titled my first podcast “myths and legends” because no one listens to these scientists except me. I am not the expert THEY are I am just literate and willing to learn.

Brookk trout can adapt to many of these streams if they are connected, assisted with genetic rescue, managed intentionally and brown trout do not eliminate them therefore we should not dump more brown trout in.- there I GOT ALL THE CRAZY EXTREMIST LUNACY OUT……THATS PUBLISHED ALREADY
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Pie in the sky.
 
caddisflyer said:
Pie in the sky.
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The brook trout genome has been fully sequenced and we are identifying thermal adaptation genes and others while starting to implement early genetic rescues.


Where do you think we will be in 20 years when our earths sixth mass extinction crisis(that you apparently want to continue to fund) drives the kind of innovation in molecular genetics that climate change is driving in energy right now? Wake up
 
silverfox said:
wild-trout-spawning-sign-765x1024.jpg
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I enjoy fishing throughout the fall and winter. I don't necessarily move off of brookie streams in the fall but I make every effort to stay on the banks as much as absolutely possible.

When I do enter the water, I work very hard to adhere to what's written on the sign Fox posted. I may change my tactics a little to focus on the fast water or deep pools but that's less about the spawn and more about where the fish are hanging. I don't think about it much more than that.

November is a collision point between the brookie spawn and deer hunting in most of the streams I'm targeting on SGLs and SFs. For me, that's more of an incentive to stay away from the streams than conservation. If I work in, I think I know what to look for and what to avoid. It's not that hard IMO.
 
Fish Sticks said:
The brook trout genome has been fully sequenced and we are identifying thermal adaptation genes and others while starting to implement early genetic rescues.


Where do you think we will be in 20 years when our earths sixth mass extinction crisis(that you apparently want to continue to fund) drives the kind of innovation in molecular genetics that climate change is driving in energy right now? Wake up
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The future belongs to you my friend. Implying (as you have in many posts) that people can't read or are just ignorant won't make you many friends but carry on .
 
caddisflyer said:
At some point in ten years I feel like I will check back on this board and the majority will all be hating on Brown Trout. Seems like some lousy new trend with flyfishers going off the deep end. We have it in politics so I guess why not with kooky flyfishermen. What a shame. The vast majority of the excellent trout fishing in PA and New York as well as other places here in the east at least is for Brown Trout. And the likelihood that Brook Trout will adapt and thrive in MANY of the waterways that have good Browns is highly unlikely. Go ahead and do whatever restoration on Brook Trout, fine but it should not be at the ruination of our wild Browns. Honestly the extremist points of view are silly. The reality is much of this states water is in a less than pristine condition. Browns adapt. Brook Trout don't.
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Very well said I agree 💯
 
caddisflyer said:
At some point in ten years I feel like I will check back on this board and the majority will all be hating on Brown Trout. Seems like some lousy new trend with flyfishers going off the deep end. We have it in politics so I guess why not with kooky flyfishermen. What a shame. The vast majority of the excellent trout fishing in PA and New York as well as other places here in the east at least is for Brown Trout. And the likelihood that Brook Trout will adapt and thrive in MANY of the waterways that have good Browns is highly unlikely. Go ahead and do whatever restoration on Brook Trout, fine but it should not be at the ruination of our wild Browns. Honestly the extremist points of view are silly. The reality is much of this states water is in a less than pristine condition. Browns adapt. Brook Trout don't.
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Ending stocking over native brook trout could greatly benefit brook trout populations. That would cost nothing to do. And would not involve hating or trying to eradicate brown trout.

The reason it works is that ending stocking over native brook trout reduces the harvest of native brook trout. Where a put-and-take program is being run over a native brook trout population it attracts many anglers, many of whom harvest trout rather than releasing them. So, the brookies are simply cropped off.

People who have done a lot of brook trout fishing know that it's the unstocked streams that have the good brookie fishing. Not the stocked streams. There are many stocked streams that have native brook trout, but they are small. They are heavily cropped off at about 7 inches.
 
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troutbert said:
Ending stocking over native brook trout could greatly benefit brook trout populations. That would cost nothing to do. And would not involve hating or trying to eradicate brown trout.

The reason it works is that ending stocking over native brook trout reduces the harvest of native brook trout. Where a put-and-take program is being run over a native brook trout population it attracts many anglers, many of whom harvest trout rather than releasing them. So, the brookies are simply cropped off.

People who have done a lot of brook trout fishing know that it's the unstocked streams that have the good brookie fishing. Not the stocked streams. There are many stocked streams that have native brook trout, but they are small. They are heavily cropped off at about 7 inches.
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So why fish for them at all? If you are talking about preserving a species then stop all fishing for this delicate Brook Trout. I have no problem with stopping stocking over Brook Trout. I like them just fine. I just think that demonizing Brown Trout and especially wild Brown Trout is silly when the majority of our good fishing is for them. There are many more reasons besides Brown Trout that Brook Trout are not present in PA streams. I guess next thing will be chucking nice Browns on the bank while carefully releasing native White Suckers. One of the very best streams in my area where you might encounter some fairly large Brook Trout of ten inches or more contains a mix of about 50/50 Brooks and Browns. It has stayed that way for all the years I have fished it. By the way it is also stocked every year. Someone should study it I guess.
 
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caddisflyer said:
So why fish for them at all? If you are talking about preserving a species then stop all fishing for this delicate Brook Trout. I have no problem with stopping stocking over Brook Trout. I like them just fine. I just think that demonizing Brown Trout and especially wild Brown Trout is silly when the majority of our good fishing is for them. There are many more reasons besides Brown Trout that Brook Trout are not present in PA streams. I guess next thing will be chucking nice Browns on the bank while carefully releasing native White Suckers. One of the very best streams in my area where you might encounter some fairly large Brook Trout of ten inches or more contains a mix of about 50/50 Brooks and Browns. It has stayed that way for all the years I have fished it. By the way it is also stocked every year. Someone should study it I guess.
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It’s not about “demonizing” brown trout. It’s about simply accepting that they’re a threat to brook trout just like sediment, land use, deforestation, pollution or any other threat.

Lots of outfits in PA are working on everything else (environmental threats). Many other states are putting policies in place to attempt to deal with brown trout too. PA has not.
 
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