Fishing in fall and winter (with as little impact on spawning as possible)

[Mike]

I found this somewhat surprising observation in the particular abstract in #18 above regarding wild ST/ wild BT:
“However, a model of the direct relationship between Brook Trout and Brown Trout abundance explained less than 1% of data variation.”

Carry on…..

 

[Fish Sticks]

To answer the OP’s question its ok to power wash the side of your house sept-june and destroy lantern fly egg masses because a corporate lawyer from the cumberland county never wrote a book about them professing them to be ethereal unicorns

 

[Fish Sticks]

As an aside, board members may want remember this noteworthy and, frankly, a bit surprising observation in this particular case for future discussions about wild ST/ wild BT interactions from the abstract above:
“However, a model of the direct relationship between Brook Trout and Brown Trout abundance explained less than 1% of data variation.”

Carry on…..

I saw that as well if we didn’t have removals all over the east in small systems that bring back brook trout id deff want to look further down the rabbit hole. I think what that points out is that the effect of stocking on top of wild populations is much more harmful. However if the top 30 invasive species in n planet earth was indeed that benign we wouldnt see brook trout come back when nothing in the stream has changed except the presence of brown trout

 

[dudemanspecial]

At this point I think the only hope the brook trout have is for us invasive European migrants to head back where we came from, and take our brown trout with us.

 

[sandflyx]

I've seen what happens when stocked browns in a brookie stream take over. its a shame, lost over half of the wild brookies in just a few years.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I've seen what happens when stocked browns in a brookie stream take over. its a shame, lost over half of the wild brookies in just a few years.

Yea brookies are falling off the map. The survey data does not show it but there are class A’s allover the state that say brook trout that are all brown trout. There are class A mixed populations that are all just browns as well. There are class A brook trout streams that are now mixed. alot of these are in SF, SGL, and other relatively undisturbed places I can think of Old growth hemlock stands that are basically small streams in pre-colonial conditions that have browns in them. The tunnel vision on habitat and the myth that brook trout need reverse osmosis level water cleanliness killed us. No one wanted to see it because of the romanticism for brown trout created by authors and the fly fishing culture that out them on a pedastool. Then vince marinao impregnated charlie fox and dudeman special was born

 

[dudemanspecial]

Then vince marinao impregnated charlie fox and dudeman special was born

Maybe I would be a better caster if this were true.

You are not too far off though, because like Mariano and Fox, I am bred from 2 Europeans, which has promoted rapid growth of our invasive species. We are really messing with the native habitat here and should all consider going back where we came from, or stop stocking more of us here.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Maybe I would be a better caster if this were true.

You are not too far off though, because like Mariano and Fox, I am bred from 2 Europeans, which has promoted rapid growth of our invasive species. We are really messing with the native habitat here and should all consider going back where we came from, or stop stocking more of us here.

This always eventually happens. People see the the sobering findings from the fisheries science side and it differs from the fallacy created in fly fishing lure that building brown trout bunkers and starting new populations in tailwaters is “conservation”. All of a sudden sinply creating more of a sporting experience they like does not have the feel good “conservation” tag applied to it. Dysphoria usually ensues. Then people start trying to do the desperate mental gymnastics to connect harvesting the brown trout and the holocaust or some sort of ethnic cleansing. Only problem is europeans don’t meet definition of invasive species because we migrated. If someone made you by stripping milt from your progenitors and fertilizing an egg in a hatchery, sailed across the atlantic and stocked you and some friends in an area occupied by native americans youd be an invasive. But the migration and no other being planting you is what makes you not invasive species. Smithsonian published on this topic and gave that answer a while back. If we ever find out there is a species known as the galgamecks that travels from galaxy to galaxy trafficking species that put us in earth we are TOTALLY invasive.

You can see the dysphoria and pathological avoidance of common sense in the invasivespecies-o-philes mind. Discussions that prempt calling conservationists agents of genocide come before “hey maybe we should not stock these” TOTALLY LOGICAL IF YOU ASK THIS “EXTREMIST”

 

[dudemanspecial]

Only problem is europeans don’t meet definition of invasive species because we migrated.

You just can't admit you are what you hate so much, can you?

 

[Fish Sticks]

You just can't admit you are what you hate so much, can you?

Again after being presented with more logic The invasivespecies-o-phile runs hiding for the realm of the subjective and what aboutisms. Operantly conditioned to salivate from the brown trout stimulus and negatively conditioned to scowl when the conservation stimulus is introduced the subject will display dysphoria and rage at the thought of an non utopian brown trout-verse populated by people who believe fly fishing in itself and creating their preferred fly fishing set up in natures watercourses equivalent to 18 hole planned manicured golf courses is conservation. We need some sociology grad students to record this interaction

 

[dudemanspecial]

Again after being presented with more logic The invasivespecies-o-phile runs hiding for the realm of the subjective and what aboutisms. Operantly conditioned to salivate from the brown trout stimulus and negatively conditioned to scowl when the conservation stimulus is introduced the subject will display dysphoria and rage at the thought of an non utopian brown trout-verse populated by people who believe fly fishing in itself and creating their preferred fly fishing set up in natures watercourses equivalent to 18 hole planned manicured golf courses is conservation. We need some sociology grad students to record this interaction

It is cute hearing you talking about logic as if you have any real concept of what that is.

 

[joebamboo]

"We need some sociology grad students to record this interaction"

Really?

 

[Fish Sticks]

"We need some sociology grad students to record this interaction"

Really?

It is cute hearing you talking about logic as if you have any real concept of what that is.

I mean I think people highly socially entrained to make the phrase “invasive brown trout” sound like nails on a chalk board to the point that it seems more logical to them to try to make human comparisons with people persecuting humans instead of just admitting stocking less insanely expensive invasive species is reasonable is not logical and pretty extremist. Hence the sociology grads.

 

[sam]

Why is every thread on this board turning into the same topic/debate/argument?

 

[dudemanspecial]

I mean I think people highly socially entrained to make the phrase “invasive brown trout” sound like nails on a chalk board to the point that it seems more logical to them to try to make human comparisons with people persecuting humans instead of just admitting stocking less insanely expensive invasive species is reasonable is not logical and pretty extremist. Hence the sociology grads.

I, like most people on this board, agree that native brook trout should not be stocked over.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Why is every thread on this board turning into the same topic/debate/argument?

Not hard to do some research and find a common thread.

 

[silverfox]

I always find it amusing that we're so concerned about spawning trout and fishing for them and then descend on Great Lakes tributaries in the fall like lantern flies attracted to fish stick's porch light to catch spawning trout, and it's totally ok. I don't just mean Erie PA.

I think the answer is that it's highly variable. I've noticed some small streams that have a handful of spawning habitat where it seems like 90% of the population must congregate in a 20 yard section of stream to spawn. IF someone were to go through there and wreck the redds w/ viable eggs in them, it might have an impact on the population. Maybe.

On other streams where spawning is occurring in random places throughout the whole stream I doubt there's any impact at all. Large rivers? Probably zero impact from angling/wading.

 

[joebamboo]

Why is every thread on this board turning into the same topic/debate/argument?

Because two individuals have to show us how smart they think they are!

 

[silverfox]

Because two individuals have to show us how smart they think they are!

 

[PennKev]

I always find it amusing that we're so concerned about spawning trout and fishing for them and then descend on Great Lakes tributaries in the fall like lantern flies attracted to fish stick's porch light to catch spawning trout, and it's totally ok. I don't just mean Erie PA.

Only the grossly uninformed would fall for this comparison. The Erie steelhead fishery is entirely man-made and would cease to exist once stocking of smolts stopped. It is as much an artificial fishery as the trout pond at at Sea World.

We could catch all the spawing fish and stomp every redd in Erie County and it would not impact the steelhead fishery one bit. Same goes for NY and OH and many of the Great Lakes migratory salmonid fisheries.

Does angling affect some trout fishery, somewhere? Sure, of course, but using Erie steelhead as an example of hypocrisy misses the mark by quite a bit.