First "spawn" post of 2016!

[The_Sasquatch]

I hope it'll be late again in NCPA. I'll be up there again the 2nd week of Oct. Of course I keep my eyes open and wade carefully, but I'm hoping for a few soakers before then, and a late spawn. I'd like to get at least one good Fall trip in.

 

[whtwtr79]

I have never felt any guilt after, ripping, finessing, ect. a brown from a redd. Hook the hen, release her, she goes right back. Hook a male, he goes right back. If he doesn't, another takes his place. I have done this for years now and will continue. The river has no shortage of fish. Come mid November, I may even milk a few loose hens for eggs as they make excellent steelhead bait. I've been all about conservation even before it was cool, sometimes it seems we get carried away. I have done this for twenty years now on Irish Flats and have not seen a reduction of fish.

 

[ryansheehan]

whtwtr79 wrote:
I have never felt any guilt after, ripping, finessing, ect. a brown from a redd. Hook the hen, release her, she goes right back. Hook a male, he goes right back. If he doesn't, another takes his place. I have done this for years now and will continue. The river has no shortage of fish. Come mid November, I may even milk a few loose hens for eggs as they make excellent steelhead bait. I've been all about conservation even before it was cool, sometimes it seems we get carried away. I have done this for twenty years now on Irish Flats and have not seen a reduction of fish.

To quote Robert DeNiro
"I'm a mammal can you milk me focker"

Also please read post #17

 

[The_Sasquatch]

This is gonna get good now.

 

[whtwtr79]

When the river was "All tackle, Trophy trout" We kept 2 a day 14" or bigger as the creel limits allowed most were over 20". The spawn provided some very fast fishing, much better than the sulphur hatches of the prior spring, with bigger fish willing to cooperate. I have not seen much of a difference in numbers since those days. I am just fascinated with the people who get all butt-hurt over someone fishing during the spawn.

 

[whtwtr79]

BTW, I am not a troll. I'm just putting my.02$ out there

 

[afishinado]

whtwtr79 wrote:
I have never felt any guilt after, ripping, finessing, ect. a brown from a redd. Hook the hen, release her, she goes right back. Hook a male, he goes right back. If he doesn't, another takes his place. I have done this for years now and will continue. The river has no shortage of fish. Come mid November, I may even milk a few loose hens for eggs as they make excellent steelhead bait. I've been all about conservation even before it was cool, sometimes it seems we get carried away. I have done this for twenty years now on Irish Flats and have not seen a reduction of fish.

..............................................................................................

When the river was "All tackle, Trophy trout" We kept 2 a day 14" or bigger as the creel limits allowed most were over 20". The spawn provided some very fast fishing, much better than the sulphur hatches of the prior spring, with bigger fish willing to cooperate. I have not seen much of a difference in numbers since those days. I am just fascinated with the people who get all butt-hurt over someone fishing during the spawn.

From posts I've made in the past:

I fished for bass on their beds one time, a long time ago in Florida on Lake George. Basically, flipping a rubber salamander into a spawning bed and yanking and winching a spawner out. I did that for about two hours until I caught an 8 lb female dripping eggs. I gently released it without taking a pic and told the guide to pull up anchor and let's go somewhere else. We motored out of the lake and fished for stripers in the St. John's river for the rest of the two days I fished. I ended up catching a whole bunch of really good stripers and had a great time. The guide had never seen such good striper fishing before in the river. Good karma, probably.

Here is a link to a great article I end up posting every year at this time. It is written by Steve Sywensky from FFP Fly Shop in State College:

Trout Fishing During the Spawn

If you ran into a huge buck with his antlers caught in a barbed wire fence would your go down to your truck and grab your rifle....or your wire cutters?

I often ask myself why, for some, catching a bunch of fish or even a big fish is so important to them that they forget about sportsmanship, and even important, the stewardship of our streams and rivers.

 

[pcray1231]

If you ran into a huge buck with his antlers caught in a barbed wire fence would your go down to your truck and grab your rifle....or your wire cutters?

Both if he's legal and in season (gonna be hard to drag him out attached to that fence)!!!!

But seriously, when it comes to fish, it depends. I've got no problem fishing redds when it's not a reproducing population. Stockies, steelhead, etc. But the situation changes if the population is based on natural reproduction.

I've said this before, but again, my motivation as a sportsman/conservationist is to not cause harm to the fishery. I don't really care about individual fish. I will not disturb a fish if he's actually making more little fishies and the future of that fishery depends on his success... But if he's merely going through the motions instinctually, and doomed to fail, then he's fair game.

 

[afishinado]

IMHO, many anglers miss the point; it shouldn't be all about filling the game bag, creel, or even loading up your cell phone camera with pics.

Fair chase or fare chase....the choice is yours.

I know some members on here like Dave W and Troutbert among others, walk along the streams to check out the wild trout redds every fall. I really enjoy doing this myself and get great satisfaction just witnessing nature at work.

This is the last paragraph written by Steve Sywensky from the article in the link I posted above. I cannot express my feelings better than he can:

Each angler must ultimately answer the question himself. Any angler who fishes for wild trout, however, should visit his favorite stream during the spawn. The struggle to ensure survival of the species is both profound and poignant, and I always feel a little humbled by watching it. When you obsserve how hard the trout work at it and the physical beating they take, it is understandable that as many as 25% of the spawners do not long survive the attempt. When you watch the whole process unfold, you can only respect and love the result, a wild trout, more.

 

[pcray1231]

I don't consider fishing redds "unfair". No more than, say, using attractors to elicit a reaction strike as opposed to perfectly matching a hatch on a feeding fish. It's a way to be successful while fishing.

I agree with both Steve Sywensky and WHTWTR. How can that be? Well, they're talking about different situations. And situation means everything.

WHTWTR, based on context, seems to be talking about steelhead. As this is a PA forum I'm assuming PA steelhead. If I am wrong about that, then I retract all that follows.

Assuming I am right, I have nothing against him ripping or finessing fish off of redds. I would do it standing beside him and not feel a bit of guilt. Because those fish aren't successfully spawning. Ok, maybe occasionally, for 1 or 2% of the population. But by and large that population is NOT sustained by the success of those fish spawning. It is supported by the PFBC and 3CU and others stocking millions of baby steelheads.

Yes, spawning is stressful, and yes, being caught may make it more so. Again, I don't care about the fish's feelings or pain. If I did I wouldn't stick hooks in their mouths and rip them out of the water for fun.

On the other hand, switch the same discussion to Spring Creek as Steve Sywennsky was discussing, and my opinion totally changes. Those are wild fish and the future of the fishery absolutely depends on the success rate of those spawning fish.

My interest is in the future of the fishery. I'd encourage everyone not to do anything that would diminish it. Beyond that, the idea of fair chase, etc. That's up to you. But I won't criticize anyone for doing a legal activity that causes no harm to anyone else.

 

[McSneek]

whtwtr79 wrote:
When the river was "All tackle, Trophy trout" We kept 2 a day 14" or bigger as the creel limits allowed most were over 20". The spawn provided some very fast fishing, much better than the sulphur hatches of the prior spring, with bigger fish willing to cooperate. I have not seen much of a difference in numbers since those days. I am just fascinated with the people who get all butt-hurt over someone fishing during the spawn.

For pcray - read this again and let us know if you still think he is talking about steelhead.

 

[acesedgley]

doesn't sound like steelhead to me....would be nice to have the perspective of knowing the "river" of which he speaks.

I know that when I was new to fly fishing, I would hunt deer 1st Monday after thanksgiving in Spruce Creek, then head over to Spring Creek to fish. I was not knowledgeable about what was going on in the stream at that time, but soon enough realized that the spawn was on and that was why I was finding pods of fish in certain places, but did not know enough about the fishery to consider the possible consequences of my actions.

I think PCray has it about right.

 

[troutbert]

acesedgley wrote:
doesn't sound like steelhead to me....would be nice to have the perspective of knowing the "river" of which he speaks.

Little Juniata River

 

[CLSports]

You should not fish in the summer because the water is too low and warm and will stress out the fish.

You should not fish in the fall because the fish are spawning.

You should not fish in the winter because the water is too cold and their metabolism has slowed and they are in their winter holding lies; plus the rainbows may be starting to spawn soon too!

You should not fish in the spring because the fish are adjusting from a long hard winter and need to build up their strength for the long hot summer months ahead.

You may fish for steelhead in the Little J because they are stocked there.

 

[krayfish2]

creeping on wild trout stream looking for redds to fish = creeping bar at 1:59am looking for girl too drunk to stand up on her own.

Easy score both ways. Not illegal but pathetic and unethical in the eyes of many.

whtwtr79 (Ronnie Kitterage Jr.)wrote:
When the river was "All tackle, Trophy trout" We kept 2 a day 14" or bigger as the creel limits allowed most were over 20". The spawn provided some very fast fishing, much better than the sulphur hatches of the prior spring, with bigger fish willing to cooperate.

So, what you're saying is you're not good enough to catch the larger fish during hatches or are too lazy to put in the time to find the 'alpha males' of the river? Maybe a lesson or reading a book would help you improve your success during non-spawn periods. I'll also take a stab that you have 'x' amount of mounted fish on your wall. Most importantly, you haven't seen any changes with your own eyes so it must not be harming a thing....right?

I target larger fish for the challenge. I don't eat fish and return every single one unharmed for others to enjoy.

 

[PSUturf91]

krayfish2 wrote:
creeping on wild trout stream looking for redds to fish = creeping bar at 1:59am looking for girl too drunk to stand up on her own.

Easy score both ways. Not illegal but pathetic and unethical in the eyes of many.

So, what you're saying is you're not good enough to catch the larger fish during hatches or are too lazy to put in the time to find the 'alpha males' of the river? Maybe a lesson or reading a book would help you improve your success during non-spawn periods. I'll also take a stab that you have 'x' amount of mounted fish on your wall. Most importantly, you haven't seen any changes with your own eyes so it must not be harming a thing....right?

I target larger fish for the challenge. I don't eat fish and return every single one unharmed for others to enjoy.

My god! Not only are you my fly fishing hero... you're a gosh darned saint!

Perhaps some people fish because they like to catch fish, they like to feel that fight on the end of the line or dare I say it... eat a fish!

Who are you to put people down for doing something that is totally legal because you don't believe its ethical? Grow up

 

[The_Sasquatch]

CLSports wrote:
You should not fish in the summer because the water is too low and warm and will stress out the fish.

Who said you should not fish in the summer? Just use common sense. If the water is 70 degrees and barely above your ankles, move on and find a cooler stream w/ better flows.

You should not fish in the fall because the fish are spawning.

Who said you should not fish in the Fall? Fish before the spawn. Fish for stockers during the spawn. Don't target spawning trout because let them spawn! There is absolutely no reason to horang spawning fish unless all you're interested in is your trophy and hero-shots.
[/quote]

You should not fish in the winter because the water is too cold and their metabolism has slowed and they are in their winter holding lies; plus the rainbows may be starting to spawn soon too!

Haven't heard any objections to winter fishing, other than it's too cold for the fisherman!

You should not fish in the spring because the fish are adjusting from a long hard winter and need to build up their strength for the long hot summer months ahead.

You may fish for steelhead in the Little J because they are stocked there.

Those are new ones to me haha! I do get the point of your post, CLSports. And you're right, sometimes we go a little too far w/ some of this stuff. But I think the general rule of thumb is, use a little common sense to do what's right for the resource. The goal is to not only ensure we have awesome trout fishing right now, but to hopefully provide awesome trout fishing for us and our kin in the future as well.

Is fishing over spawning fish legal? Sure. Lots of things are "legal". Doesn't make it "ethical", and it CERTAINLY is not good sportsmanship!

 

[krayfish2]

Sod God,

I didn't say eating fish was wrong, illegal or any of that. I don't eat them but know plenty of guys that do. I also hold a different level of respect for wild fish than I do stockers. I fish in the fall but make sure that I stay far away from areas where spawning happens. Pre spawn fish or post spawn fish....fair game. Yanking them off of beds is low brow angling for sure.

You wrote:. Not only are you my fly fishing hero... you're a gosh darned saint!

All I can say is "You're welcome". Keep up the good work

 

[ryansheehan]

Who are you to put people down for doing something that is totally legal because you don't believe its ethical? Grow up

You must be new here if you thought there were not going to be responses like this. I could go stand and splash in every riffle, run or pool you cast into; not illegal. I could go do the stingray shuffle through every redd I can find; not illegal. I can fish wild trout streams when the water is 72 degrees; not illegal. If your decision on the water comes down to if it's legal or not, then someone does need to grow up and it sure isnt Kray.

 

[PSUturf91]

To Mr. Krayfish2,

If Sod God is an attempt to play on my username and/or my profession, I prefer turfgrass entomology master. That's what my diploma from the Penn State grad school will say anyways.

To Mr. Ryansheehan

Many fly fisherman (or at least the loud ones) seem to be under this illusion that wild trout streams are there for them and only them to use only as they see fit. They feel as though if you do anything in that stream that they don't necessarily agree with, you are wrong and they certainly let you hear about it.

Laws and "ethics" are often somewhat disjoint because what is "ethical" is totally subjective. Do I have my own personal code of ethics? Sure. Does it differ from the elitist fly fisherman who will only fish when all the stars, sun, and moon align? Yup. Does it differ from the bait fisherman who goes to the stream and catches his legal limit of wild trout every single day. Absolutely. Does that give me the right to insult someone personally because they want to do the stingray shuffle through every redd on the stream? Absolutely not. That kind of behavior would be childish and anyone part taking in it (or defending it) should grow up.

When you catch fish (even when all the stars, sun, and moon align), some of them die. That's just a fact of fishing. There are plenty of people who think that any kind of fishing in general is unethical, yet there you are on the stream continuing to fish. So before anyone comes at anyone with insults ("too lazy to find the alpha male") or brash assumptions ("x fish mounted on your wall"), perhaps take a step back, practice a little empathy, and have an open mind. The streams are available for anyone from the anti fishing trout photographer, to the avid sting ray shuffler to enjoy. As long as no one is breaking the law, the best we can do is respectfully share our opinion and go about our own business.