DHALO proposal

[JackM]

I've told the long version before, so I'll just be brief...
I took up fly fishing and C & R so that I could fish the DHALO and FFO waters in the Fall. I credit the programs for my finding this version of fishing.

 

[Maurice]

JackM wrote:
I've told the long version before, so I'll just be brief...
I took up fly fishing and C & R so that I could fish the DHALO and FFO waters in the Fall. I credit the programs for my finding this version of fishing.

Me and my bro did too...and found, before the internet, that many others did too...Back when the spot burning/kiss and tell was in the form of the regs book and popular authors...

 

[gfen]

Chaz wrote:
The object of a resource is to use and reuse a resource, not to use it up, have we learned nothing in over 125 years of stocking?

I learned that rainbow trout are the best trout anywhere and they even eat little black stoneflies (not sure if those work on Valley) and that we need more of them.

 

[Chaz]

PennKev wrote:
Hatches smatches. Stocked bows don't rise anyway.

Have you ever fished Pine Creek during a hatch? Trust me rainbows do rise to hatches.

 

[Chaz]

PennKev wrote:

Chaz wrote:
But the old post makes no sense, it was about changing the regs on Pine Creek, not an across the board change of DH regs.
I for one was not going to comment on it at all even though I was opposed. Not only that there is nothing in the proposed rule making section of PFBC's web site stating they intent to change it.

Link please. I don't remember a thread like that recently.

PFBC Meeting

It's the 10 page old thread from early January. The Pine Creek rules are settled for this year, the regs. are in effect. The effective date was Feb. 14, 2015.

 

[PennKev]

The across the board modifications to the bait, and harvest date regulations changes for DHALO areas were most certainly the focus of that ten page monstrosity. I really can't even begin to comprehend how you think otherwise.

 

[PennKev]

Have you ever fished Pine Creek during a hatch? Trust me rainbows do rise to hatches.

1. It was a joke that went over your head. (But not Streamerguy's)

2. The recent heated debate is about changes to bait and harvest dates on all DHALO areas. Again I have no idea how you think it has been about Pine Creek. Even if Pine has been mentioned in recent threads it most certainly has not been the focus. Frankly, I am confused as to whether you are trying to deflect attention to Pine or if you just don't understand the focus of what you've been reading.



Oh, and one more thing...

Do a search on the forum for "pine."

The word pine is used in only 5 posts to the big ten page thread and at least two of those are a duplicate posts f Tim R's comments to the PAFBC.

 

[CRB]

annual report to the House Game and Fisheries Committee


HARRISBURG, Pa. (March 2) – Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission Executive Director John Arway will present the agency’s annual report to the House Game and Fisheries Committee on Wednesday, March 4, at 9 a.m. in Room B-31 of the main Capitol Building.

During his testimony, Director Arway will highlight the agency’s accomplishments during 2014 and discuss priorities for 2015.

The meeting is open to the public.

It also will be broadcast live by Pennsylvania Cable Network (PCN). Viewers can tune in at https://pcntv.com/watch-now or watch it on the PCN station in their area. Check the PCN website for a list of TV stations: https://pcntv.com/in-your-area/channel-designations/.

It would be great if questions were asked. My Rep is on the committee and hope he asks the questions I wrote him.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Kids article

As for the water, try to find a local pond or slow-water river that boasts a strong population of pan fish. Pan fish (bluegill, crappie, sunfish, pumpkinseeds, etc.) inhabit waters throughout the country and tend to be easily caught near shore with a simple jig and bobber set up. Get your kids on them first, since catching makes the fishing more enjoyable for kids.

Kids 2

1. Keep it Simple, Stupid Instead of taking your two-year-old out swinging dry flies for steelhead, I would recommend bluegills at the local pond. That's a no brainer...

Kids3

Choose the right pond. Try to find one that isn't very crowded. Kids can get enthusiastic with their casting, and we want to catch fish, not people. Also, look for a pond that has a lot of pan fish. We're not after a huge bass. Kids will be very happy with a bunch of bluegill.

Kids again....

Lmfao loved this one

Read the angler ethics. Nothing like taking your kid down to the tully so they can observe poachers first hand. observe how they get away with it, without consequence, while you are trying to raise sportsman.
I could keep going, there are only 1,000,000,000,000 links on google and almost none involve trout fishing other than derbies.

Why is it anymore this kids involvement movement seems like a platform just to please people that are TAP members or the like?

Oh because maybe the rest of the worlds angling community knows how to get kids involved in fishing? it doesn't mean chasing a picky fish such as trout to get it done.

Please someone hand the PFBC a "Fishing for kids for Dummies" book.

 

[geebee]

wouldn't a better idea be to create more childrens ponds ?

with a mix of species ? trout and bass ?

imho if you want to create fishermen thats the way to go.

i understand the arguments that fish don't holdover well during the summer, but that igbores the fact that fish migrate downstream to bigger waters and upstream to cooler tribs.

which is another reason to get rid of the dams or lobby for fish passes.

 

[Chaz]

PennKev wrote:
The across the board modifications to the bait, and harvest date regulations changes for DHALO areas were most certainly the focus of that ten page monstrosity. I really can't even begin to comprehend how you think otherwise.

THERE IS NO PROPOSED RULEMAKING SAYING PFBC INTENDS TO DO IT AND THERE IS NO COMENT PERIOD. I didn't say the discussion didn't exist, the proposal everyone wants to discuss at this point in time doesn't exist.
The Pine Creek change was made in January and is as of Feb. 14 in effect. The O.P. of that thread dealt with the proposal for changing the Pine Creek Delay Harvest regs. It quickly evolved into the monstrosity it became.
As for the rainbow bit it also was a recent thread in which many members have the mistaken belief that stocked rainbows don't rise to flies. How would I know you are joking about that. You didn't write it in a joking manner.

 

[PennKev]

Here is thread:

PFBC Meeting Thread

Here is the text from Tim Robinsons original post which started the thread:

tomorrow will be the PFBC quarterly meeting where the commission will be listening to public comment about proposed rule and regulation changes. I will be there with a group from our TU chapter and I will also be delivering comment from the Chesapeake council of the IFFF.

If you can make it out please do. the meeting begins at 2pm in the susquehanna room.

here is an interesting article from the post gazette on one of the issues being commented on:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ou ... acts/stories/201501180140

Here is the link he posted:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ou ... acts/stories/201501180140


Nowhere in Tim's post or in the PG article is the word "Pine.

Not once.

Granted the original article Tim posted is about class A streams and not DHALO regs, the DHALO changes became the focus of the thread before it became two pages long. In fact, Tim largely shifted the focus of the thread himself in post #6.

Additionally, only 5 posts in the entire 10 page thread contain the word Pine. Of those, only 3 mention the regs change on Pine. One of those being a cut and paste from another source by Dave Kile.

THERE IS NO PROPOSED RULEMAKING SAYING PFBC INTENDS TO DO IT AND THERE IS NO COMENT PERIOD. I didn't say the discussion didn't exist, the proposal everyone wants to discuss at this point in time doesn't exist.

Are you serious?

PFBC Proposes Changes to Delayed Harvest Streams

Does that refresh your memory?

As for the rainbow bit it also was a recent thread in which many members have the mistaken belief that stocked rainbows don't rise to flies. How would I know you are joking about that. You didn't write it in a joking manner.

I wouldn't expect you to get a joke at this point.

 

[streamerguy]

geebee wrote:
wouldn't a better idea be to create more childrens ponds ?

Yeah, that would be a good idea. Right now there are some stream sections set aside for kids only. In my opinion, there should be more.....and they should be well stocked....and well advertised.

Hold derbies/events, but not just the usual catch 'em and rope 'em type. Instead make it educational. Have various "stations" teaching kids various aspects of fishing such as casting, knot tying, fish ID'ing, habitat, conservation, food sources(flip some rocks over, seine minnows, etc..), fish handling, and heck even even teach them how to fillet a fish. Get them involved. The current derbies are great.......but they can be even better.

Letting the kids use bait year round on DHALO's isn't really going to get more kids fishing IMO. There's already gazillions of places where they can use bait......adding a few more stream sections won't be a game changer. "Oh, but the DHALO's are open year round unlike ATWs, and they maintain greater fish numbers than ATWs so the kids will have a better chance at catching trout" Well, the PFBC has the power to fix that. Make other sections better suitable for kids as well. Having more kids-only sections with high fish numbers(either stock more or have special regs) is a possible solution.

The main goal of the proposal, in my opinion, is to get these fish "utilized" ie. harvested. Allowing kids to use bait is just a finishing touch to make the PFBC look like they're trying to get more kids involved. Just my opinion

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Yeah, that would be a good idea. Right now there are some stream sections set aside for kids only. In my opinion, there should be more.....and they should be well stocked....and well advertised. Hold derbies/events, but not just the usual catch 'em and rope 'em type. Instead make it educational. Have various "stations" teaching kids various aspects of fishing such as casting, knot tying, fish ID'ing, habitat, conservation, food sources(flip some rocks over, seine minnows, etc..), fish handling, and heck even even teach them how to fillet a fish. Get them involved. The current derbies are great.......but they can be even better. Letting the kids use bait year round on DHALO's isn't really going to get more kids fishing IMO. There's already gazillions of places where they can use bait......adding a few more stream sections won't be a game changer. "Oh, but the DHALO's are open year round unlike ATWs, and they maintain greater fish numbers than ATWs so the kids will have a better chance at catching trout" Well, the PFBC has the power to fix that. Make other sections better suitable for kids as well. Having more kids-only sections with high fish numbers(either stock more or have special regs) is a possible solution. The main goal of the proposal, in my opinion, is to get these fish "utilized" ie. harvested. Allowing kids to use bait is just a finishing touch to make the PFBC look like they're trying to get more kids involved. Just my opinion

Not just your opinion. The opinion of many. It's ridiculous. I agree with your whole post but especially the bold part. It's even more infuriating when someone constantly pees in your mouth and tells you it's raining. Amirite?

It's for the kids bro! Those 6' tall, rubber hip boot wearing kids that leave styrofoam and eagle claw hook packages next to the coors lite cans in the homemade fire ring on open private property on first day.

 

[geebee]

streamerguy wrote:

The main goal of the proposal, in my opinion, is to get these fish "utilized" ie. harvested. Allowing kids to use bait is just a finishing touch to make the PFBC look like they're trying to get more kids involved. Just my opinion

i agree. I can only assume its to keep someone in a job ?

you would think that the aim would be to minimize harvesting not maximize it - to save money.

i think the PFBC would be better off doing the kind of kids events that the local TU's and Conservancy's do - from a nature point of view - appreciate the resource and have fun too.

 

[streamerguy]

CRB wrote:
annual report to the House Game and Fisheries Committee


HARRISBURG, Pa. (March 2) – Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission Executive Director John Arway will present the agency’s annual report to the House Game and Fisheries Committee on Wednesday, March 4, at 9 a.m. in Room B-31 of the main Capitol Building.

During his testimony, Director Arway will highlight the agency’s accomplishments during 2014 and discuss priorities for 2015.

The meeting is open to the public.

It also will be broadcast live by Pennsylvania Cable Network (PCN). Viewers can tune in at https://pcntv.com/watch-now or watch it on the PCN station in their area. Check the PCN website for a list of TV stations: https://pcntv.com/in-your-area/channel-designations/.

It would be great if questions were asked. My Rep is on the committee and hope he asks the questions I wrote him.

Anyone have a follow up on this?

 

[troutbert]

The rulemaking notice has been posted on the PFBC website, and includes a link for making your comment on the proposal:

http://www.fishandboat.com/reg398.htm

It's the first item under the heading "RULEMAKINGS"

 

[streamerguy]

Awesome. Everyone should voice their opinion.......even if you already sent in a letter. We lost the Class A battle, hopefully not this one too...

It says the comment period starts the 14th, but I assume we can start now since the link is there

 

[troutfanatic]

Just a question on this. I do not desire to get in anyone's argument.

Do we underestimate the intelligence and adaptability of a stocked trout once it acclimates to the area where it is stocked? I mean I realize there is an initial onslaught from opening day until two weeks later, but I find plenty of fish in late May early June if the water conditions are right.

No, I don't think we need bait fishing in DH waters; if it were up to me, there would be no treble hooks either. In NC, you cannot use anything but single hook artificials. I suspect if we allow kids to fish bait in DH, there are plenty of dads willing to help.

Regardless, there is a DH section near my mother-in-law's house in Allegheny County. I fish it when I visit and have done so since I was in middle school. I suspect there is a high illiteracy rate amongst bait fishermen, if not they are sociopaths because the DH waters I fish are clearly posted as such.

Over the years, I have seen many knuckleheads chucking eggs, powerbait and 4" long Rapalas in the main DH section I fish. They don't seem to fare as well. Not bragging... it is what it is. Sometimes I have bad days on that stream too. I have stood on the banks and thrown everything in my boxes and watched a pod of trout feeding away but not taking my fly/nymph... I couldn't zero in on what they was eating so they gave me the fin (finger). That said, a glowing blob seems a lot less lucrative. Seems to me, once a fish gets acclimated they turn to their instincts and eat what's in season.

 

[streamerguy]

troutfanatic wrote:
Just a question on this. I do not desire to get in anyone's argument.

Do we underestimate the intelligence and adaptability of a stocked trout once it acclimates to the area where it is stocked? I mean I realize there is an initial onslaught from opening day until two weeks later, but I find plenty of fish in late May early June if the water conditions are right.

As far as finding numbers of fish in late May and early June......I find that it varies a lot. Some streams get fished out VERY fast. One smaller stockie stream I fish barely has anything left when late May rolls around. I'd be willing to bet $$ that at least half of the fish get taken out opening week. Other streams, especially bigger water, don't get fished out as easily. High water throughout the spring, especially opening week, helps a ton. Spreads out the fish and saves fish from getting harvested.

There's a discussion about this in the "PFBC Meeting" thread.....the other thread about the DHALO proposal.

The new proposal will cause a big spike in pressure on the DHALO's in late May and June. Many fish will get killed......but don't worry, the resource is being "utilized"