Brook Trout population before things were destroyed.

[StarvinMarvin]

well that sucks cornhole, did you read my post about this waterway?
IN THIS WATERWAY THE BROOKIES SPAWN IN THE CLEANER COOLER TRIBS AND ARE BORN THERE. THE ADULT TROUTS THEN RETURN TO THE MAIN SYSTEM DURING THE SPRING TO FEED AND GET BIG ONLY TO RETRUN TO THE SPRING TRIBS TO SPAWN. IT IS A CYCLE AND YES IT IS VERY REMOTE. NOT LISTED EVEN AS AN ATW, i have never seen a fisherman, a fishing line, a bobber an old bait container, boot prints on the bank, or a soul anywhere near this stream excpet for the occasional worker for the natural gas company driving down the road while.


heres a little visual evidence on big brookies since you seem to be in complete denial: http://www.paflyfish.com/forums/Open-Forums/Paflyfish-General-Forum/This-years-best-fishes/2,40163.html

 

[Cornholio]

Starvinmarvin, are you serious?! not a single one of those brookies is even remotely close to as big as what you are claiming! I highly suggest getting a new tape measure...

 

[BrooksAndHooks]

I can tell you I have a class A near me that is about 8 miles to get to the largest part from any road access. I also know there are large brookies. A friend of mine caught one and showed me a picture, and it was every inch of 13" if not more. Hard to tell from pictures but filled up both hands lengthwise and hung whole head and tail hung ff his hands as well. I have caught plenty of 10"+, biggest coming out around 12". and one fish around 13" but can't confirm for sure that it was native sadly. I personally have seen a 16"+ fish and several in the 14-15" range in a location which I will never share. They are out there in a handful of waterways in the state. Definitely nowhere near what they used to be. There is also a lake here that has record brook trout in it that bass fishermen catch at times. Has a Class A headwater and class B tailwater. I have no doubt there are big fish that head up in the headwaters at times.


Most of your small freestone streams are going to see 10-12" fish as the biggest fish in there, and thats pushing it for some. The size of the water and food source just does not support a fish of larger size, and if they are truly untouched their genetics favor smaller fish anyways. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

Go on instagram right now, I can show you pictures of a guy I know that has caught 3-4 in the 14" range this year. I think we would all kill to know where, but it's big water in the eastern half of PA. likely SE. probably limestone, but can't say for sure.


I can post pictures right now of several that size. I just don't feel like it since it's so annoying, and I have nothing to prove. Don't have a dog in this fight. If you don't wana fish for them, it leaves more for me.

 

[Reeder]

freestone

 

[misanthropist]

That's a stockie.

 

[Reeder]

How can you tell?

 

[huntfish]

I think that ones tough to tell. The fins appear to be stocked due to the fact they aren't as pointy as wild fish but the head is pretty proportional which would indicate wild..who the heck knows lol

 

[sandfly]

pine creek has wild brooks even now, few but they are here. some over 12". I have caught smaller 9"< here and have seen the big ones. historically pine was narrow, deep ,cold and covered in trees except here in big meadows. the natives called it dark waters for a reason, it was always twilight along the stream.

 

[lineman]

Where is this wilderness? The most remote part of Pennsylvania is the Quehanna Wild Area followed by the Hammersley Wild area. You are never more than 3 miles from a road. I can hike that distance in an hour.

Mr. Cornholio, with all due respect, you need to get out more.

 

[RLeep2]

My personal experience on Pennsylvania freestones has been that wild brook trout in excess of 12" are rare to the point of being all but non-existent. Almost as scarce as mountain lions. And so far as I know, this roughly matches up with what our fishery professionals tell us, a fact that in my view far, far outweighs the anecdotal experience or assertions of anybody here.

Do such fish exist at all in PA? I'm sure they do when and where the conditions are right. In "targetable" numbers? I'll believe it when the biologists tell me it is so. Which hasn't happened yet.

 

[pcray1231]

That's a stockie.

Disagree, I think it's wild (talking about the fish in post 44). That said, I'd also say it's probably about 11 inches, no more than 12. A VERY nice brook trout, to be sure. But nobody is claiming that those are unheard of.

 

[pcray1231]

Not a great pic, but here's one that measured out around 12", making it the largest wild brook trout I've seen (and I didn't catch it).

 

[pcray1231]

Better pic of same fish....

 

[troutbert]

That's probably a hatchery trout. Look at the pectoral fin.

 

[pcray1231]

No, I doubt it. Location is about 3-4 miles to the nearest stocking point (which is the stream it runs into, and only stocked with browns and bows). Nearest brookie stocking point about 8 stream miles (another trib to the stream it runs into). I suppose it's "possible".

But we catch lots of bigger wild brookies from this particular stream, mixed in with smaller ones, of course. It was a WBTE system, for what it's worth, though we were catching larger brookies well before the C&R regs went into effect. I used to fish this stream regularly and have never seen a hatchery trout in it.

Not to mention, the pectoral fin is the ONLY thing that's questionable. White and black line on fins is perfectly delineated, which is rare on hatchery trout, and is one of the better indicators for brook trout. All other fins were perfect and translucent. This pic does a poor job with the spots, but they are bright as well.

Like I said, I'm not claiming to have a honey hole where this is average or something. It's literally the largest one I've ever seen in person.

 

[evw659]

In my experience (which includes about 5 years of exploring brookie streams, and approximately 60 different mountain streams fished in 10 or so counties), true native brook trout 12" or bigger are Extremely rare. I'm not saying I don't believe some of you guys about freestones here and there that perhaps hold decent numbers of these fish, but I sure as heck haven't found any. With that said, of all the brookie fishing I have done (which is a lot, honestly), the biggest true native brookie I caught was just shy of 12" and it was a monster. I posted about it on here a couple years ago. besides that, I have caught maybe 3 fish between 10-11". The largest brook trout I have seen in person was from a spring pond on the Allegheny Front, and it was around 13", perhaps a hair bigger, and it was an amazing sight as I am certain it was not a stocked fish. As far as claims about 12 inch natives being common in some areas, that's hard for me to believe. Not saying I don't believe it, but i do agree with Pcray about seeing pictures of natives on here that looked 3 or 4 inches smaller than the stated length.

 

[StarvinMarvin]

Starvinmarvin, are you serious?! not a single one of those brookies is even remotely close to as big as what you are claiming! I highly suggest getting a new tape measure...

@cornhole
You are a toolbag. The last brookie, the one being held with two hands has almost 8" between the two hands not to metion the 2"s of fish that rests in each hand. I do sincerely feel sorry for you though that in your 20 plus years of over 100 days each year, of stomping all the cricks in PA you were never able to see a native that was 12"s or bigger. I will not post a photo of any of the big natives from my favorite stream due to the fact that they have gps tag in them and I wont stand to risk exposure on the web. All of those fish are at least 10" minus the one that probably was around 8 or 9 but a beautiful heatlhy fish none the less. Like Linesman said you need to get out more. Just because a stream isnt given the label by a state agency as a "wilderness stream" doesnt mean that they arent out there lol. Hit the vice, cabin fever isnt setting well with you.

@brooksandhooks
Im sure we are probably referring to the same guy (mo_fishing)
he caught one this year that I would at least say was an easy 16 or 17. I think I also know which stream you are referring to as well and yeah its a hike lol.

 

[Fishidiot]

As I've said many times, the largest freestone wild brook trout I have caught in PA in nearly forty years of fishing small streams... was eleven inches.

Interestingly, the pic below is one I took of my nephew with a wild brookie he caught with spin gear some years ago in a local creek with easy public access. I was stunned to see this fish and estimated its length at over twelve inches, the largest wild brookie I have seen in PA outside of Big Spring. I returned a few times to try to catch this fish on a fly rod, but never saw it again.

 

[Swattie87]

I'm going to start a 12" Freestone Wild Brookie thread (similar to the 30” Wild Brown thread), and until someone posts a picture of one, with tape measure along side, in addition to a notarized eyewitness statement confirming the catch was in PA and certifying the measurement, along with DNA testing confirming the fish is not stocked (the fish will need to be harvested for this part), we all will be forced to agree they don’t exist. Someone post one and prove us wrong.

Marv – Can you remove the GPS signature somehow? I’m not a computer guy, but I would have to think this is possible? No? If so, post one of those monsters and end the debate quick.

I once caught a 13” range, largely believed to be wild when originally posted and debated, Brookie, but I am unfortunately disqualified from the above due to the lack of credentialed documentation of my catch. Beyond the 13”er, I have one that went 11”, and a few in the 10” range. An 8-9” fish is reasonably common and the upper limit most freestone streams top out at. 10”+ is a rare bird. 12”+ is a Dodo, until proven otherwise on PAFF.

 

[Reeder]

pcray is pretty good at guessing fish sizes...that brook trout was just shy of 12". I don't believe wild brook trout of that size are common either. I just figured it was a good thread to post it on.