Bait Fishing in Special Regs Saucon Creek

I found this article regarding this issue today...

http://www.outdoornews.com/January-2016/Commissioners-want-Saucon-Ck-change/

They are also talking about this issue in NJ's fly fishing website http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=27700
 
According to the agenda for the march 30/31 PFBC meetings the Saucon changes were on the agenda. Anyone know what happened?
 
BradyS wrote:
I found this article regarding this issue today...

http://www.outdoornews.com/January-2016/Commissioners-want-Saucon-Ck-change/

They are also talking about this issue in NJ's fly fishing website http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=27700

The Outdoor News article doesn't seem to be balanced but knowing how they lean regarding deer hunting I shouldn't be surprised. (If it would be possible to stock buck around the state they'd be all in.)
 
Its all about who is distributing the info, and where they get it from.

It was brought up at the fisheries meeting, but then tabled due to time constraints.
 
THANK YOU for the article in PA Outdoor News. It shed more light on what’s going on. Now it’s time to let the Executive Director and the Fish Commissioners know what we think. All of them. I mistakenly thought letters should go to Glade Squires, but he’ll possibly ignore or trash them, as he asked if there was “any obligation to seek out public comment.” When the Fish Commission counsel’s answer was “not necessarily,” no call was made for public comment. Why, because in the past the public has said hands off special regulations areas. So please, let them have your thoughts . Some commissioners are clearly aware that the public should be consulted, and they are sensitive to public comment. I’m sending a hard copy letter to every commissioner, specifically thanking Len Lichvar for his courageous and intelligent stand. Heck, I’d campaign for him if he needed votes, and I may write the governor to note what a good job Lichvar is doing. I’ll thank Sabatose also for calling for public comment, and though I’ll provide a strong argument to Elliott against his support of Squires’ proposal, I’ll thank him for urging caution and asking for public feedback as well. The others will get a letter outlining the reasons for keeping stocked fish and bait out of the special regulations area.

John Arway, Executive Director 717-705-7801 (I’m writing and calling him).

Commissioners: Edward P. Mascharka III, Rocco S. Ali, William J. Sabatose, Leonard L. Lichvar, Eric C. Hussar, Norman R. Gavlick, G. Warren Elliott, Steven M. Ketterer, Glade Squires (I’ve written Squires; the others will get a letter now. Erik’s talking points above are helpful, and I’ll be respectful though thorough. I think letters sent to the HQ in Harrisburg will get to the right destination. )

Headquarters – Harrisburg
1601 Elmerton Avenue
PO Box 67000
Harrisburg, PA 17106-7000

I’m also thinking of writing a letter or article for Pennsylvania Outdoor news, respectfully refuting the misinformation in the article, and respectfully differing on the idea of stocking the park. Why not focus on an upstream area that is already open for stocking, and point folks to it? Is the Grist Mill park outside the special regs? (I only fish the first mile or so of the stream.) There’s even a pond to stock there for kids, right? Giving them an alternative may make for a quick shift when they realize the opposition. Please keep those emails going to the mayor until we hear of his decision, and start sending letters to the Fish Commission. Thanks to all who have heard the call and answered it.
 
The article, while seeming to have a bit of a slant, is pretty accurate except for:

"The one thing they can’t do – at least not realistically, given the regulations – is fish, he said. [Mike Topping]

“I live right there, and I can tell you there are only the same four or five fly-fishermen who ever fish there,” Topping said."

and:

" if they want more people to fish, and more young people in particular to fish, they should open the stream to bait fishing to make it family-friendly."

All not quite true for the reasons already stated.
 
I've just gotten to this thread today. I fish the Saucon frequently; for me, it's my "home" creek. Is this issue still unsettled? One of the comments above indicated that it was to have come up before one of the Commission's committees but was tabled. Is it scheduled to come up again? If so when? I will send emails but am not sure from the thread which to use and which would be the most effective. It would be helpful too if those of you who have sent e-mails would provide the salient points here that ought to be included in any email or letter.

Thanks.
 
You can send a note to the Mayor of Bethlehem:
Mayor Robert Donchez
City of Bethlehem
10 E. Church St.
Bethlehem PA 18018

rdonchez@bethlehem-pa.gov

I would also consider sending a note to the PFBC Commisioners, which can be found on the PFBC website.


If you look back at page 1, I listed some points to consider, but I would also encourage you to use your own words to express your feelings on the importance of wild fish. I am also suggesting people be mindful of not suggesting a certain group of people would create more problems, etc.

The issue has not been settled yet. It was brought up the the Commissioners meeting and tabled till the next meeting. As far as I know the City has not made their wishes known.

 
Yes, it appears that the mayor will have some input, and that the commissioners will be discussing it at a later meeting, perhaps voting on it. I'm sending a letter to the mayor and every commissioner. I've listed the names of the commissioners on page 3 of this thread, and the Fish Commission address. On page one there is an email address for the Fish Commission, though I think individual hard copy letters to commissioners will speak even more loudly. Please spread the word among fellow friends of the Saucon's wild browns and encourage them to contact officials. If this goes through it won't be reconsidered any time soon. Please take a few minutes and let your voice be heard.
 
When I read the article on the January PFBC meeting from the Outdoor News the other day. I thought that it was an April Fools Day joke. Sadly it is not. It is for real. All tackle bait fishing for stocked rainbow trout in a trophy trout section containing wild brown trout. Really??? Are they still trying to simplify the regulations?

FCP
 
No. A group of bait fishers from the area wants the whole creek, not just most of it, to fish. They have the ear of the Fish Commission and are pressuring hard. They are making false claims. It's up to us to let the Fish Commission know that many people do not want this gem ruined, or it will be. Please spread the word, and encourage like-minded friends to write the Fish Commissioners and the Mayor of Bethlehem.
 
Erik, any news from the mayor's office?
 
not yet. I will probably follow up with him this week.
 
Dr. John Barry is a main force driving this, he's gotten the support of Mike Topping and some others within the Northampton County Federation of Sportsman's Clubs. Don't get me wrong the Northampton Federation does some very, very good things and these are good people. I'm actually a "graduate" of their excellent Junior Conservation School. When it comes to kids and getting them involved I believe their hearts are in the right place but their appears to be a lack of understanding about not only wild trout conservation but also the many other factors that have done much more to contribute to the decline in children fishing as a favorite pasttime. John was also a supporter of getting a hatchery established in Saucon Park too, first for trout and then for shad (he's a DRSA member.) He's a big guy with a very loud voice and IMO he pretty much commandeers many meetings for his personal crusades.

These guys aren't just interested in stocking trout in Saucon Park but rather they basically want every Class A stream section in Northampton County to be stocked with trout. What really burns me is that they pretend to speak for the majority of sportsmen in the county and that's how they publicly present their ideas to every official and person they can. In the past Barry and some others have pretended or have led people to assume there is some sort of support from TU in this (John is a TU Life Member, as am I.) I've spoken with John several times and we were on the same side of the issue of obsolete dam removals on area waterways. He's not a bad guy by any stretch but he's convinced his way is the only way and that he's absolutely correct on all this. He's respected in the community, can be very persuasive and I think he's gotten some officials (many of whom don't even know there are wild trout) to believe everything he tells them is fact. One of their favorite misrepresentations is that kids can't catch wild trout and they wax poetically about how back in the day kids were lined up fishing many of these streams and that the reason that isn't the case today is because wild trout streams aren't stocked. Barry tells everyone the studies prove stocked trout have zero detrimetnal effect of wild trout and he'll email anyone a copy of a study he believes says so. He emailed me the same study which I pretty much read from beginning to end and I don't think that's what the study actually concludes, not from my reading of it anyway (I think he stopped reading once he found a paragraph or two that appeared to support his conclusion.)
 
Yo Ryan

Great info! Could you link a copy of that study?
 
I'm a former resident of Lower Saucon and still fish this section when I go back to visit my parents. I sent an lengthy email to the Mayor along with the following links to former studies done on the Saucon trout Biomass by the PFBC and a good hatchery vs wild trout article from the NY times (a bit dated but makes good points)

To those more deeply involved, please keep this thread up to date and if there is anything more that we can do to help please ask.

http://fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/afm/1999/afmsauc.htm

http://fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/afm/2004/5_09-17saucon.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/23/science/hatched-and-wild-fish-clash-of-cultures.html?pagewanted=all
 
Oh man, he emailed it to me late summer or early last fall (funny thing was I never asked for it but he got ahold of my email and sent it to me.) I don't have it anymore but I think it was from Montana or referenced Montana. I don't remember exactly and keeping stuff like that isn't high on my priority list. Sorry.
 
According to a PA F&B conservation officer I spoke to a couple of months ago while fishing there, he informed me that a more recent survey was done on that TT section. He told me they had determined the wild trout population was way down in the average size trout range (10"-12"). There were a good number of YOY fish and a few lunkers, but the overall average size trout pop was way down. He said the flooding issues were mostly to blame.

I have not seen this report yet. I assumed that it was done in 2015??

Again, this is not my opinion, this is what he told me.

 
Ryan, and others, thank you for keeping the thread going. It is critical that the mayor, and all the commissioners hear from all of us. If those who value wild trout read this thread and write letters, officials will realize that these few do not speak for the many who value wild trout. The Saucon trophy section will bounce back if it is protected. If not, it will become like so many other streams where wild trout are stocked over and killed routinely. I've caught and released some big fish in there, and don't know of any other small stream in the state with the potential it has. Stocking, bait fishing, and a hatchery will certainly ruin it.
 
Why Montana went Wild. This story was featured in Montana Outdoors May–June 2004. Some interesting information on why Montana stopped stocking trout in their rivers and streams. There even is a reference to data from Pennsylvania. It probably is Dr. Bachman’s study on Spruce Creek.

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2004/****Vincent.htm

FCP



 
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