Another big improvement...this time a limestoner

I agree wt2. Not an envious spot for Mike to be in no matter how you slice it.
 
MVHagey wrote:
Hey guys I figured out how to cure cancer. I won't indicate which cancer or how it's done, but I thought it would be informative.
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Absolutely perfect!
 
KeithS wrote:
Isn't part of the interest in FF finding streams that produce? How about the satisfaction of locating a good population from your own work?
Mike is simply saying that there's another stream that's improved greatly. You're welcome to enjoy the search, and if you're good at the search, you've earned a good fishing trip.
Do you all need to be spoon fed?
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This is a load of BS. None of these waterways are top secret. A very small % of people are out there planning on dumping bleach in the honey holes and netting up all the fish that float up down stream from all this stuff we post. There is no spot burning or anything even close to it. Anybody that fishes, and I'm not talking about the two week wonder crowd that just leaves trash all over the place. Knows where the waterways are that have good fishing. Sites like this are all about sharing knowledge and locations on where to go so you don't have to spend a lifetime running around play'n Davy Crockett Like they had to do 200 years ago. I know I like spending a months worth of income on fuel in a weekends time to search out a where's Waldo stream. Yes, finding your favorite spot where you have good fishing is always a neat thing. But, everybody knows where every single waterways is. And if your going to start an info thread on how well a waterway is doing. Then give some info on what it is and where it is. Or just don't start it in the first place. Or maybe its a new web game, sounds like? Is a spring creek? Limestone? And we're all wait'n around for thumbs up icon sign to be sent as we get warmer with our guesses. No don't need to be spoon fed in the least. That is not the point. I suppose it just boils down to people like knowing things that others do not and as the saying goes, Knowledge is power. Or at least when it come to keeping hidden what waterways are in better shape because of.....? Well, we may never know.
 
Most likely Mike got a 'tip' from an angler about the stream and was asked politely to not publicize it. That's a very common thing and I'm glad the PAFBC staff takes that seriously. Sure I would love to know the stream but I'm glad that he doesn't post it up if that is the case.
 
There are limestoners all over the southeastern part of the state. Great post!
 
I disagree, emphatically...

Anything worth having is worth working for and things that are handed to us do not carry the same satisfaction as things that are worked for, researched, explored and perspired over. This includes information about improvements in wild trout populations in a given stream or stream section. Doesn't have the first thing to do with "power" or "knowledge" that somehow supposedly makes us feel superior to other anglers. Its about what we have earned vs. what we think we are entitled to without having to lift a finger

There is another divide among anglers that this topic touches on. There really isn't a right or a wrong side of this divide, there is only what our preferences are as individuals. Simply put, not all of us see this pastime as, of necessity having a strong social or communal component like badminton, barbershop quarter singing or beach volleyball. Some of us fish for the solitude and have no real need to replicate on-stream the urban or suburban places we call home. For a lot of us, these are exactly the sort of settings we drive three or four hours to get away from.

That's my view on all this...
 
" Not an envious spot for Mike to be in no matter how you slice it."

It would have been so much easier to simply refrain from posting any of the info.
 
"There is no spot burning or anything even close to it. Anybody that fishes, and I'm not talking about the two week wonder crowd that just leaves trash all over the place. Knows where the waterways are that have good fishing."

lol

"But, everybody knows where every single waterways is"

FiveWeight, that is just nonsensical.

 
Zak wrote:
Most likely Mike got a 'tip' from an angler about the stream and was asked politely to not publicize it. That's a very common thing and I'm glad the PAFBC staff takes that seriously. Sure I would love to know the stream but I'm glad that he doesn't post it up if that is the case.
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"A formerly degraded urban-suburban SE Pa limestoner has made a substantial improvement. An approximately 5.5 km segment has gone from a fairly low density, relatively low biomass wild brown population in two-thirds of that stretch and no wild trout in the upper third in the 1990's to a mix of probable class B and class A equivalent segments in 2015. "

Does this sound like information based on a "tip"from an angler? Sure hope a biologist wouldn't make statements like this based on "tips."
 
barbless wrote:
" Not an envious spot for Mike to be in no matter how you slice it."

It would have been so much easier to simply refrain from posting any of the info.
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Agreed. What good does it really do to state to everyone that the biomass "Stream X" has really improved?
 
KeithS wrote:
Isn't part of the interest in FF finding streams that produce? How about the satisfaction of locating a good population from your own work?

Do you all need to be spoon fed?
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You know - I get great satisfaction out of fly fishing on streams that are well known, produce fish and were not surprisingly discovered by others long before me. I don't need to, nor do I have the time to, explore every blue line in the State.

Sure don't need to be spoon fed. That's not what this thread is about.
 
"the biomass "Stream X" has really improved..."

NOW GO POUND 'EM FELLAS!!! I hope to see several cars with PAFF stickers parked at this stream before the week is out!

Not sure his reasons but Mike did the right thing.
 
How do you guys even have time to fish when you're so busy getting offended by everything possible. If he wanted to share he would have. Simple as that. And no, there are plenty of streams out there that are amazing fisheries, yet few people know about. If you put in the work to find these streams then you reap the reward. He gave plenty of information for you to take a guess on what stream this is if you live in the area. Believe it or not, more people read up on these forum posts than just the members here. If he wants to keep the name to himself for the time being, that is his business, and his reasons are his own. The lack of pressure is probably what has helped this stream to recover.
 
barbless wrote:

It would have been so much easier to simply refrain from posting any of the info.
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At this point, and it's early yet, Mike probably does wish he had said nothing about this stream's recovery/progress. I wonder if all this interest in an unnamed stream would have taken place had it been "just any" forum member posting it? I doubt it.
 
I think the reaction would have been different, but probably not any more positive. At best, Mike's post can be read as saying: "Hey streams can improve and it is happening in the SE part of the state in limestoners."

Broken down to that, without all the commentary, it really isn't that interesting as a stand-alone thread, but that shouldn't be criticized from the peanut gallery. Let him who has not posted an uninteresting thread throw the first stone.
 
What Mike did was to post hope. And that doesn't need a stream's name attached to it.

So many on this board are members of groups and organizations that work to preserve a watershed. His post merely highlights that if a stream suffering in the most populated region of the state (assumption since that's the area he covers) can recover than so can many others. Perhaps the one you may be working on.

Or maybe this spotlighted recovery might play a small role in inspiring someone to take up a watershed, stream, wetlands or forest and join a group, take action and work to make it better... Knowing that improvement and recover can happen and does happen.

 
Maybe the stream is in Philadelphia County...
 
For the most part, I'd say the majority of those who visit the site are fly fishers, and not the garden hackle throwers. Therefore, the need for "secrecy" is silly.

There are those on this site who seem to believe that because they research and "explore" hidden gems that they are somehow superior to those who do not. That those who chose to visit the site and enjoy reading others experiences on named streams are therefore not able to understand and/or appreciate the "essence of the flyfishing experience".

Fivewt, I'm with you on this issue.
 
I don't research and explore "hidden gems", myself- at least not yet. But I do think that the people who do are making a superior effort, and they deserve credit for doing it. Or, more to the point, that they deserve the rewards for the quest; I don't think they're out there to seek praise from someone else for doing it. And although I'd be grateful for any information they share, I don't think I'm entitled to learn anything that they find out. Much less everything that they find out.
In this case, the stream in question is a spring creek in the most heavily populated area of the state. Probably a small one vulnerable to excessive fishing pressure. Why give that up instantly?
 
The term "Gem(s)" has now been used three times in this thread, incorrectly on each occasion.

Just to be clear and consistent in terms of PAFF nomenclature, Mike mentioned a blossoming BROWN Trout population in "Stream X"...he made no indication of any gems being present. If anyone is looking for gems, members of the site or at large guests, they will need to look in a different thread!

 
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