2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

[Mike]

Snakeheads have really turned on for anglers in the past 1.5 weeks, with reports coming from the lower non-tidal Delaware, Neshaminy Ck, and the hands-down hot spot this year...Octoraro Ck. Octoraro is producing for many anglers and at times producing multiple fish per angler.

 

[Fredrick]

Mike wrote:
Snakeheads have really turned on for anglers in the past 1.5 weeks, with reports coming from the lower non-tidal Delaware, Neshaminy Ck, and the hands-down hot spot this year...Octoraro Ck. Octoraro is producing for many anglers and at times producing multiple fish per angler.

I wonder how long till a bucket biologist puts them in the reservoir . Lots of fish reported getting caught on the susky flatts also . I have a friend who fishes the Octo allot and he hasnt heard of any booms in catches of SH in the creek . I have allot of friends catching double diggit fish in the tidal Delaware basin these last two weeks one was even 13lbs caught in PA .

 

[Fredrick]

Some videos from John Odenkirk fishery biologists in Virginia.


He’s a cooler version of Mike

https://youtu.be/b_1HmUY5EOo

https://youtu.be/b_1HmUY5EOo

https://www.dgif.virginia.gov/fishing/snakehead/

 

[Fredrick]

Got out and slimed my new Bonafide SS107 on the 4th, fish took my snake charmer fly

 

[afishinado]

Fredrick wrote:

Mike wrote:
Snakeheads have really turned on for anglers in the past 1.5 weeks, with reports coming from the lower non-tidal Delaware, Neshaminy Ck, and the hands-down hot spot this year...Octoraro Ck. Octoraro is producing for many anglers and at times producing multiple fish per angler.

I wonder how long till a bucket biologist puts them in the reservoir . Lots of fish reported getting caught on the susky flatts also . I have a friend who fishes the Octo allot and he hasnt heard of any booms in catches of SH in the creek . I have allot of friends catching double diggit fish in the tidal Delaware basin these last two weeks one was even 13lbs caught in PA .

Snakeheads are just now establishing themself in the lower Delaware and the Susquehanna Flats/Chesapeake bay areas.

These are the prime spawning the area for American and Hickory shad as well as stripers that inhabit the entire North Atlantic Ocean. It's where their spawning occurs as well as where their fry and juvenile fish grow up.

The shad juveniles migrate to the ocean in the fall. Stripers spend their first year or two year in the bays before heading to the ocean.

No one knows the effect of adding a very efficient and hardy predator fish like the snakehead into the spawning and nursery waters of the shad or striper.

To see if what the effects are will take years of study. But I think it's naive to believe no striper or shad fry or juveniles will be consumed by snakeheads. It's just a matter of how prolific the snakehead population becomes and how many juveniles are consumed.

While snakeheads can be fun to catch right now, their spread now to the spawning and nursery waters can really spell trouble or even disaster for the native fish like stripers and shad that have been spawning in NE and Mid Atlantic bays for thousands of years.

 

[Mike]

We already know that one was gorging itself on young American Eels in the tidal Delaware. Eel populations are not in the greatest shape on a coastwide basis. They also serve as a forage fish for species, such as Striped Bass, so if the snakehead population focuses on young eels at certain times of the year, they may be competing directly with the native and more desirable Striped Bass. This particular snakehead was electrofished during the striper migration and spawning period in the Delaware.

 

[streamerguy]

Has there ever been a study looking at the effects of non-native black bass populations on the shad, eels, and stripers??

Obviously the spread of snakeheads is a cause for concern, but we can't forget about all the other non-natives in the watershed that are munching on the native fish.

 

[Fredrick]

streamerguy wrote:
Has there ever been a study looking at the effects of non-native black bass populations on the shad, eels, and stripers??

Obviously the spread of snakeheads is a cause for concern, but we can't forget about all the other non-natives in the watershed that are munching on the native fish.

I doubt it most of the complaints about snakeheads are hypocritical . Are they supposed to be here no but either is 3/4 of the gamefish in this area . I’m sure trout in the artificial cold water fishery of the upper Delaware and artificial steelhead fishing in the Nw are the best thing since sliced bread for native fish populations. I could go on and on, the bias for this fish is laughable.

To date there is no scientific evidence to show Snakeheads are decimating any fish populations non native or native.

 

[afishinado]

Mike wrote:
We already know that one was gorging itself on young American Eels in the tidal Delaware. Eel populations are not in the greatest shape on a coastwide basis. They also serve as a forage fish for species, such as Striped Bass, so if the snakehead population focuses on young eels at certain times of the year, they may be competing directly with the native and more desirable Striped Bass. This particular snakehead was electrofished during the striper migration and spawning period in the Delaware.

In addition, in the Chesapeake Bay the menhaden aka bunker is one of the most important forage fish for multiple fish species in the Atlantic. Plus menhaden are also know as a filter feeder, capable of filtering up to seven gallons of water each minute in the bay.

While snakeheads may be fun to fish for, many fisheries biologists are very concerned about the impact of the species. One can only hope the population settles in and has little or no impact on the native ocean fish or any important forage fish. It probably will take a decade or more for the snakehead population spread out and grow to it's peak in the Delaware / Chesapeake bay spawning grounds. At that time the impact, if any, will be better understood.

 

[poopdeck]

Frederick, while I appreciate your passion for snakeheads, the biologist reports you keep posting to support your position actually says they are what everybody says they are and they need to be killed and aggressively kept in check for it to have little impact on other fish species. I believe you watch his videos and read his papers but do not fully listen or hear what he is saying. Granted he likes to say these things very quickly and move on to what a great fish they are. From a biologist standpoint they are a great fish. I agree he is an expert on snakeheads and he says kill them all. That is alarming in and of itself.

It does not matter what's suppose to be here or not or for how long they've been here. it matters how they all get along and their impact on the whole ball of wax.

Your love of these fish is great and you seem to know how when and where to catch them with great success. All you need to do now is develop a taste for them. They won't be going anywhere no matter how many you eat. Perhaps a little snakehead scampi?

 

[Fredrick]

Has there been any introduced species that a biologist said that they werent worried about that they will out compete resident fish populations and what is the outcome almost 100% of the time . Like I said before let’s take a look at what the state stocks every year now what makes that different them and snakeheads. Just because the state stocks them doesn’t make it any better . They have been in the Potomac for TWENTY YEARS do you think it’s a killing spree on snakeheads down there that keeps the population in check .

I mean I’m going to go to all the invasive brown trout fisheries and eat them to help resident fish because they are most invasive fish in the state.

After that I’m heading up to Erie to save the resident fish in Lake Erie from steel head .

After that I’m going to the upper Delaware to save the shad and eel frye because the invasive trout up there are eating them all,there were trout harvested that had shad Frye and elvers in their stomach contents .

All I’m saying is don’t be a sheep or a hypocrite go out and fish for them be your own eyes and ears .

 

[jacob]

It’s interesting. My snakehead catch got a comment from a very non-fishy friend who said “I know you didn’t kill it but you should have.” Well, it’s a life and I’m not going to kill it if I’m not going to eat it.

Honestly, I’d love to try one, but F eating anything that came outta the water where I caught it. It’s practically a sewer. If anyone is interested in where, feel free to PM me - it would be cool to see another fly guy there. Honestly the presence of snakeheads makes the body of water that I caught it more interesting and a better fishery in my opinion, along with all of the invasive carp that it is loaded with

That being said, If it was in a pretty little trout stream you bet it woulda got bonked 100 times over, no question.

 

[streamerguy]

Catch & Release Regs for Non-Native Trout: A good thing
Catch & Release Regs for Non-Native Susky Bass: A good thing
Catch & Release Angling for Non-Native Snakeheads: No no no don't do that!!!

Now, the non-native trout, and the bass, musky, walleye, etc. populations (where they aren't native, so outside of the OH R. and Erie drainages) are here to stay. There's no getting rid of them, so for the purposes of managing a sport fishery it makes sense to have special regs, encourage catch and release, selective harvest, all that stuff. And from what it seems like, snakeheads aren't going anywhere either. At this point, if you're going to suggest the killing of snakeheads where they're already well established, you better also suggest killing the precious brown trout and bass.

I totally get that if the population isn't yet established well, and there's still hope for their eradication, then yeah.....keep 'em all. But it seems like we're past that point with the snakeheads, in certain areas. We should still try our very best to stop their spread.

There's a biologist report where the PFBC encourages the harvest of non-native chain pickerel at a certain lake, yet just down the road they dump brown trout on top of wild brookies. Can't have it both ways....

It's just funny how we as a society pick and choose which fish are "ok" and which aren't. It's ok for non-native bass to eat native fish, but not ok for snakeheads to eat native fish.

 

[poopdeck]

You guys just conveniently forget about the balance of nature thing. A healthy fishery is a healthy fishery. It's not just a healthy snakehead fishery. Every biologist on the potamic cites angler harvesting as being a main factor in controlling them. Nobody is talking about eradicating them, another fact convenietly overlooked. I'm not a biologist or any kind of fish expert just as I'm not a doctor or a law expert. I listen to what my doctor and lawyer say and I listen to what the snakehead experts say.

Frederick, I'm sure fishing for snakeheads is a blast. Yes I have future plans of trying to catch a few but that doesn't mean I will profess my love of snakeheads and only want to fish for them. I happen to like variety. When the experts say there's no need to kill them then I will listen and not kill them. It's all about balance and a healthy fishery.

 

[afishinado]

Below is a bulletin about snakeheads posted today on the PFBC site in SE Fishing Report section. I guess they are gathering data to assess the status of the population in the area waters.

JULY 11, 2018
Philadelphia County

There have been many reports of Northern Snakehead fish being caught and/or seen in the Philadelphia area. Most of them have been caught historically at FDR park in the lakes; however we have been receiving reports from the Delaware River and Schuylkill Rivers as well. If you believe that you have come across one, please take a photograph of the fish and contact the PA Fish and Boat Commission via our website at http://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/PennsylvaniaFishes/Pages/Snakehead.aspx and report the fish at the contact information provided there.

Make sure you include the county, body of water, average size of the fish and if possible, a photograph. Please be aware: you cannot possess live snakeheads in the Commonwealth. They must be killed immediately.


Link to source: http://www.fishandboat.com/Zone1/Pages/SERegionReports.aspx

 

[Fredrick]

More creative wording from the PFBC to scare the public . Here are the updated Regulations

PA REGULATIONS
It is unlawful for a person to sell, purchase, offer for sale or barter live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to possess live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to introduce or import live Snakehead species into Pennsylvania waters.
Transportation of live Snakehead species in or through Pennsylvania is prohibited.

 

[tomgamber]

More science denial. Relax Fred, you can still fish for them.

 

[moon1284]

Coming from strictly a cold water guy who doesn't even nymph, let alone fish for bass, carp or snakehead I agree with Fred.

The fear of invasive species is waaay overblown. A while ago I was interested in what species were native to the great lakes so I bought a few books. Its hard to discern what is native because the drainage itself is dynamic.

Zebra mussels, gobies, eurasian milfoil, etc. were all going to decimate the great lakes, I'm still waiting for it to happen. Atlantic Salmon were extripated from the lower great lakes because of habitat - building dams in nearly every trib. Blue pike are gone and it's a mystery why.

If anyone thinks snakehead are going to eliminate striped bass and eels from the Chesapeake watershed, more power to you. Get out and start killing snakehead. You're not really hurting the snakehead pop or helping the striper and eel pop, but hopefully it makes you feel good. It's pretty funny that fred catch and releasing snakehead offends people.

I'm about as afraid of snakehead as I am global warming (not at all).

 

[streamerguy]

poopdeck wrote:
You guys just conveniently forget about the balance of nature thing. A healthy fishery is a healthy fishery. It's not just a healthy snakehead fishery.

Yes, that's absolutely a good point. But what exactly determines if the fishery (with non-natives) is "healthy" or not?? Variety, and presence of stable native populations would be the obvious answer. Each fish having their own niche, the whole food web thing, etc..

Or, in some cases, is the "health" of a fishery determined by angler preference? ......"A healthy fishery is a healthy fishery. It's not just a healthy brown trout fishery.".....

If a non-native species is the dominant "sport fish" in a given body of water, does that REALLY mean the fishery is healthy, when a native fish (whether it be brook trout, or something else) would have otherwise been there instead?? Again.....angler preference. Is the Susky healthy with all those smallmouth bass? Are the native fish better off without them? Then you have situations like the upper Delaware where things are very out of wack (not saying that's a "bad" thing, but it sure isn't natural). Places like the Central PA limestoners shouldn't be chock full of brown trout, and the Erie tribs shouldn't have unnaturally crazy high numbers of steelhead fall through spring. If anything is unbalanced, it's those place. But then again, I suppose everyone has their own idea of what is balanced.

As an angler I'm not necessarily saying it's a terrible thing. I love fishing for all those fish. But yet again, it's our preference as anglers. River absolutely full of brown trout: Good. River absolutely full of snakeheads: Bad. We can't be so hypocritical.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the snakeheads really will eat everything else to the point that things get way out of balance, or if they're just simply another bass, etc. Time will tell. And in the meantime, yes, we should take home snakeheads to eat if the biologists are suggesting we do so.

 

[afishinado]

Article about killing snakeheads in the Potomac.

Stop Killing Snakeheads