Why trout in the summer ( july and august) ????

[Fredrick]

Never said not to fish those waters that stay cold

 

[Fredrick]

Check stream reports

 

[TimB]

NewSal wrote:
Everyone has there right to there own opinion, even if it sucks.

Dude, we’re talking about fishing here, so what’s with the adversarial attitude? I raised some legitimate questions about fishery management strategies, yet you respond with several derogatory comments. If you step back and read what I wrote you might see I have a pretty cogent argument for implementing strategies to promote fish populations that “thrive”, rather than just barely survive. Or you might not.

I think that recreational anglers would be best served if management strategies were tailored to the particular waterway. If some streams get too warm for trout to thrive, then maybe they should be managed for a different species that does.

You don’t have to agree with me, but either way I’m not going to bash you for your opinion.

 

[troutbert]

TimB wrote:
Uhhh, it strikes me that if a stream gets too warm for trout to survive C&R fishing in the summer, maybe it shouldn't be managed as a "coldwater" fishery. Just sayin...

How do you propose to change the management?

Take Penns Creek for an example.

 

[TimB]

troutbert wrote:

TimB wrote:
Uhhh, it strikes me that if a stream gets too warm for trout to survive C&R fishing in the summer, maybe it shouldn't be managed as a "coldwater" fishery. Just sayin...

How do you propose to change the management?

Take Penns Creek for an example.

Honestly I don't know Penns well enough to speculate. Does it have a thermal problem? Special regs to protect the fish or is it open to harvest? I thought the trout population there is thriving on it's own.

I can think of several streams in my area that look like they'd be good warm water recreational fisheries since they already have thriving populations of carp, rock bass or smallies. If these streams would support wild brook trout (or other indigenous species) that would be my preference. But the habitat won't support a wild brook trout population so they are routinely stocked with non-native trout.

I'm sure many of us know of waters that are managed for angler preference rather than what the watershed would support on its own. The Tully might be a good example of a warmwater stream pretending to be a trout stream. I'm sure some anglers will be offended by this, but I think it could be a great warmwater fishery.

My personal preference is to fish for indigenous salmonids in their native habitat. I've fished for giant brookies in Labrador, blueback trout and wild brookies in Maine, greenback and west slope cutthroat in the Rockies, sea-run cutthroat in Puget Sound, wild steelhead, redband, and rainbows in Washington, Aurora trout in the Temagami region of Ontario. I have trips planned for arctic char and an isolated trophy brook trout fishery in Canada. I fish in PA a lot, but rarely for trout here anymore because fishing for non-native browns and bows (wild or stocked) just doesn't resonate for me anymore. If I wanted to fish for brown trout, I'd go to Europe.

I know several wild brookie streams in PA that are still special, but most trout fishing opportunities here are just too artificial for me. In my opinion the best fly fishing PA has to offer is for SMB. I'd like to see those opportunities expand even more by changing the management strategy on waters that would support a self sustaining SMB fishery.

 

[redietz]

Smallmouth bass are introduced species in most of PA (except in the Ohio River drainage.) Totally artificial.

Even before Europeans arrived, many streams with native trout warmed to above 70 in the summer. Trout can survive those temps; what they can't survive is being caught and released in the heat.

"Cold water" is a fisheries management term meaning "trout and salmon". It has nothing to do with water temperatures; and came about because American fisheries managers wanted to avoid the distinction made in England between "game fish" (trout and salmon) and "coarse fish" (everything else.) That way we could promote fish other than trout as game fish. (E.g. northern pike are considered a coarse fish in England, but called game fish here. They're stilled a warm water fish however, even though the water they live in is often colder than trout waters.)

Given the choice, I'll fish for trout every time. However, at this time of the year, that usually means driving 45 minutes or more. If I only have an hour or two to fish, I'll content myself with SMB in a stream 5 minutes away. I certainly wouldn't drive hours to fish for them.

 

[Fredrick]

It’s that time of year again

 

[rrt]

I agree with the premise that one should not fish for trout in warm water, but there are streams that do remain cold and can be legitimately fished for trout. I know several streams that I have never seen rise above 65 degrees, even during the hottest summers I remember.

And, thus, for some of us, Michael Altizer said it right: God didn't have to create trout; he could have settled for bass.

(Of course, I would be chicken to say that in Raystown country.)

 

[dryflyguy]

Yeah - I remember this can of worms from last year.

First of all - I fish for trout because that's what I want to do. No interest in fishing for bass. Plain and simple
Just like I prefer flyfishing over spin fishing. Nothing snobby about it - Just doing what I want to do.

And for you guys that go for WW fish - more power to you. Have fun.
Personally, If I can't get onto a stream with cold water temps - I'm OK with not fishing for awhile

FWIW - my last outing was 2 weeks ago, on a weekend with air temps in the '90's. And I was on a NC PA tailwater that read 54 degrees - late afternoon. So cold, that heavy fog was on the water during the late afternoon and evening
What's wrong with that?

 

[Acristickid]

Do not know about most of the state with regard to flows and Temps but western PA has gotten a ton of precipitation and really only to start to heat up the last few days. Fishing has been good!!

Hit up a medium to large stream last week in the mountains and it was a about the best fishing of the year. Big dry and dropper rig. After the first 15 minutes I took the dropper off.

Water was cold. It was great, got to do my favorite fishing , prospecting big attractor patterns in likely spots.

Now I’m sure the waters will warm up this week with 90’s forecasted for days but hopeful for another week or so of good conditions.

 

[afishinado]

dryflyguy wrote:
Yeah - I remember this can of worms from last year.

First of all - I fish for trout because that's what I want to do. No interest in fishing for bass. Plain and simple
Just like I prefer flyfishing over spin fishing. Nothing snobby about it - Just doing what I want to do.

And for you guys that go for WW fish - more power to you. Have fun.
Personally, If I can't get onto a stream with cold water temps - I'm OK with not fishing for awhile

FWIW - my last outing was 2 weeks ago, on a weekend with air temps in the '90's. And I was on a NC PA tailwater that read 54 degrees - late afternoon. So cold, that heavy fog was on the water during the late afternoon and evening
What's wrong with that?

Fredrick's post below is a good one, as well Mike succinctly wrote a paragraph on here about trout and high temps (below):

The cumulative effects of sub-lethal temps are lethal. Such stress for RT starts at 68 deg F and the clock starts ticking, fifteen minute period by fifteen minute period over 68 deg, with mortality occurring based on an accumulation of those fifteen minute periods per month. Therefore, concerns begin at 68 deg F, not 78-81 F.

I understand what DFG wrote above completely.
Like up in New Hampshire > [d]Live Free[/d] Trout fish or Die....
admirable for sure. We often kid many of the troutaholics on here about fishing for other species, but nothing at all wrong with sticking to your rods and going after trout.

With a little thought and effort, one should be able to find a decent place to trout fish somewhere within a reasonable distance in PA > a tailwater, spring creek or headwater stream that remains cool.

For me though, the guys that twist my tippet are the ones that complain about how "the state" stocks over wild trout, the poachers or bait fishers kill 'em all, or some other thing is hurting the streams and the trout, yet they go out there and fish for coldwater fish in warmwater temps.

You reap what you sow...

 

[WildTigerTrout]

I fish the nearby limestoners all summer. I love the challenge of summer tricos but recently discovered the fun of fly fishing for smallmouths. I have three other fishing buddies who also started fly fishing for smallmouths. Two of the three also recently purchased fishing kayaks to add to the fun. I succumbed myself and my kayak is on it's way here as I type this. Very excited! We have just about talked our other friend into buying one also. We not only live near a lot of great trout water but also great smallmouth water. Good times ahead!

 

[troutbert]

What are the water temps cut-offs for smallmouth and largemouth bass?

The Susquehanna River can reach 90F or even above. That can't be good.

 

[Dave_W]

WildTigerTrout wrote:
...recently discovered the fun of fly fishing for smallmouths. I have three other fishing buddies who also started fly fishing for smallmouths. Two of the three also recently purchased fishing kayaks to add to the fun. I succumbed myself and my kayak is on it's way here as I type this. Very excited! We have just about talked our other friend into buying one also. We not only live near a lot of great trout water but also great smallmouth water. Good times ahead!

Oh yeah! Another one sees the light and heads for the Bronze Truth (soon will be paddling, that is).

You're gonna have a blast.
There's no better way to spend a hot summer day than floating down a river fishin smallies.

 

[Dave_W]

troutbert wrote:
What are the water temps cut-offs for smallmouth and largemouth bass?

We've discussed this before and nobody really seems to know.

There has been some new research published suggesting that walleyes are very susceptible to high mortality (100% in a recent study) when caught and released in temps over 75 degrees. As a result, some upper mid-west states are abolishing summer walleye tournaments. Muskie anglers usually curtail their efforts in warm summer rivers with temps in the 80s.

However with smallies, it's a tough call. It's a myth that SMBs are "cool water" fish. The fact is they like it hot and are as happy as pigs in slop in 80something water temps. In my experience, 88 degrees seems to be something of a top line where I expect bass fishing to slow and be better in mornings, evenings, or at night.
Nevertheless, very hot, muggy summer days following stable high pressure periods, have often produced fabulous river bassin for me.

 

[afishinado]

Dave_W wrote:

troutbert wrote:
What are the water temps cut-offs for smallmouth and largemouth bass?

The Susquehanna River can reach 90F or even above. That can't be good.

We've discussed this before and nobody really seems to know.

There has been some new research published suggesting that walleyes are very susceptible to high mortality (100% in a recent study) when caught and released in temps over 75 degrees. As a result, some upper mid-west states are abolishing summer walleye tournaments. Muskie anglers usually curtail their efforts in warm summer rivers with temps in the 80s.

However with smallies, it's a tough call. It's a myth that SMBs are "cool water" fish. The fact is they like it hot and are as happy as pigs in slop in 80something water temps. In my experience, 88 degrees seems to be something of a top line where I expect bass fishing to slow and be better in mornings, evenings, or at night.
Nevertheless, very hot, muggy summer days following stable high pressure periods, have often produced fabulous river bassin for me.

Agree with Dave that the best temps for river bassing when they are most active and feeding is usually with temps in the 80's.

Below is the USGS temp gauge for the last 12 months for the Susky in Harrisburg. For the entire year, the river temps stayed in the 70's and 80's all summer and peaked in the mid 80's (30*C / 86*F) for a few days which is normal.

My experience with smallie fishing on the Susky is that same as Dave's. Over many years of fishing, the River's warmest temps seem to coincide with the best fishing as a general rule.

I've been getting ready > tied up some bassin' flies, replaced my old leaders and cleaned my line on my 7wt.

The levels should come down a bit and the water should clear with the dry spell for the next week. Looking to get out soon. Good luck to all.

 

[Mike]

Look up the "habitat suitability index" for SMB and you will probably find the max temp info that you seek. For fingerlings it is 91-92 deg F as I recall, the only life stage that I was interested in when I looked it up.

 

[jifigz]

In my humble opinion the ideal water temps for smallies to be "happy" is 65°-80°. I personally think that they start to feel some level of stress when the temps climb above 80°F. It seems that I am in the minority in my opinion but everything I've ever read seems to corroborate this info. I will agree that super hot, sunny days when the water is at the year's warmest definitely produces a lot of good angling. Even when it is very bright and sunny fish will readily come to the surface.

 

[whtwtr79]

Warm water doesn't seem to stress trout near as much as my fillet knife.

 

[Acristickid]

Fished the MD fish for free day yesterday. Fished the North Branch of Potomac and Savage rivers. Both were cold. I think the highest reading I saw was 62.

Flows were good, fishing was okay. Beers masked the pain from wading, today it’s advil. Those are bruisers to wade. Can’t find a more beautiful trout stream than the savage.

Caught a stout 16-17 inch rainbow in the first 10 min of fishing- didn’t know that would be the biggest of the day- drat. Used articulated streamer on North Branch and dry dropper on Savage.