Warranties

[JackM]

As long as that was spelled out ahead of time, I could accept it. And if it was, it would not convince me to buy from Dan Bailey.

 

[Maurice]

MKern wrote:
When I worked at a fly shop we sold Baily's waders and it was the estimated life of th ewader not the person lifetime. Dan Bailey considered a wader to have a life expectancy of between 2 and 3 years of typical useage.
They had a questionaire that had detailed questions about number of hours worn, streams fished, and storage methods. If they felt your prematurely wore out your waders they wouldn't replace them.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. A lifetime warranty does not mean the lifetime of the product...thats umbiguous.

The way you describe it its a 3 year warranty that can be voided with excessive wear. Still, not a value for the price.

 

[Maurice]

These super-salers market their product with Lifetime Warranties to gain market share and expand customer base. As said above, many feel that they get their "fair use" after a few years and then buy again or move to another brand. But make no mistake, the corporate marketers of these products are creating a binding contract to get your dollars and that is a lifetime warranty. You are entitled to it.

Even still, when determining price points they build in the "mooch factor" to cover their arses.....if the mooch factor begins to become upset they begin to resist.

In addition, other than Bean, and especially Orvis, they run you around and they to wear you down until you give up.....delays, cant find them, etc, etc.....but if you are diligent, you will get your voucher stamped and your name thrown into the mooch factor pile.

I am willing to wager that a $300 pr of waders made in Korea costs the distributor around $75. So yeah, I think they can afford to send me a new pair when my waders leak every 6 months. After two years I get tired of dealing with the losers and move on to another brand....but make no mistake, they will leak as well.

 

[Maurice]

These super-salers market their product with Lifetime Warranties to gain market share and expand customer base. As said above, many feel that they get their "fair use" after a few years and then buy again or move to another brand. But make no mistake, the corporate marketers of these products are creating a binding contract to get your dollars and that is a lifetime warranty. You are entitled to it.

Even still, when determining price points they build in the "mooch factor" to cover their arses.....if the mooch factor begins to become upset they begin to resist.

In addition, other than Bean, and especially Orvis, they run you around and they to wear you down until you give up.....delays, cant find them, etc, etc.....but if you are diligent, you will get your voucher stamped and your name thrown into the mooch factor pile.

 

[troutslammer]

you have to use common sense here , you can't buy a set of waders for 200 dollars and expect to replace them every 2 yrs for 70 yrs & never buy another set because they are lifetime guaranteed , If this was the case then no retailer would be in business at 5 dollars and some odd cents per pair of waders. If you fish 150 days a year expect 2 yrs , if you fish 100 days expect 3 yrs , if you fish 50 days wexpect 6 yrs ok that pretty much sums it up considering you buy a good quality set of waders and oh if you fish 20 days a year buy hodgemans at walmart and they still will last 10 yrs !

 

[Shebop]

If you can fish a pair of waders hard for six years, return them for a new pair because you weren't "satisfied" and still look yourself in the mirror, you're a turd. I applaud the OP (and the other like-minded posters). Maurice is right- the mooch factor is structured into the price of the gear. I for one am tired of subsidizing mooches. Waders, no matter how much you pay for them, will eventually fail. Even the Simms twins would have to admit that.

 

[Swattie87]

IMO the underlying factor in all of this is what is "reasonable." Yes, the price of some of these products with lifetime warranties is artificially inflated to account for and recoup the losses of dishing out new products to the "moochers." Although I'm not sure "moocher" is the best term...they are justified in asking for a new replacement...after all it was a lifetime warranty. That said, I agree...I'd have a hard time calling up and asking for a new pair of waders (insert rod, reel, etc, whatever) after I got what I felt was "reasonable" use out of them. Obviously the term "reasonable" is a moving target...I'd expect a little more from a $400 pair of waders than a $100 pair, and it would clearly depend on how much I used them, and how I used them.

Somewhat off topic, but the same concept. Two years ago (during the opening week NFL Kickoff Thursday night game - I kid you not!) my Sony LCD TV blew an LCD panel and I lost the bottom third of the picture. At the time it was 15 months old, Sony's warranty on the TV was 12 months. I called anyway, and was calm and polite and had a productive conversation with the customer service rep. The entire basis of my argument was that I felt it was reasonable for me to expect a $1,000 TV to last longer than 15 months. I even came out and said that if this happened to a TV that was 8 or 10 years old, I wouldn't have even called because then I would be being unreasonable in expecting them to owe me anything toward replacing it...I would have gotten a "reasonable" amount of life out of the product at that point. Anyway, the service rep agreed, and after securing an estimate at a Sony approved repair shop that confirmed the TV was totalled, they offered to replace it. They didn't make my model anymore, and its replacement had a few bells and whistles mine didn't, so I had to pay the price difference of $180 or so. I felt this was fair on their part...I was getting a better TV than I had, so I should have to pay for that difference. Clearly I wasn't happy with Sony when the TV broke, and if they didn't offer some kind of compromise, I wouldn't have bought another one from them, but in the end I now have even more confidence in them...because they were REASONABLE!

 

[RichK]

LL Bean makes a big deal about their "Guaranteed to Last"SM warranty: it's plastered all over their website, in the stores, and even on the receipt. It's not a "Reasonable" time warranty, nor a "Something Fair" warranty. It's an unconditional warranty. I'm on their website right now, and the home page has "Products Built to Stand the Test of Time" and "Guaranteed to Last" front and center on the page. I bought a pair of Simms waders frrom Bean because their warranty is better than Simms. I had to compromise on size, but felt it was worth the Bean warranty (they carry relatively few sizes compared to what Simms produces). Same with canoes and kayaks. The Jersey Paddler will beat anyone's price by 10%, but they won't guarantee their products like Bean.

Take away Bean's warranty, and watch sales drop sharply.

http://www.llbean.com/ Look at the top of the page, the center, and the bottom. The gaurantee/warranty is hard to miss....

Look here as well:
http://www.llbean.com/customerService/aboutLLBean/guarantee.html?feat=ln&nav=ln

I had a Bean salesman tell me that I should buy a Sage from Bean, because their warranty trumps Sage's (no $50 fee for damaged rods). It's a sales and marketing tool for Bean, and if you use it, you're not a mooch. Actually, look at Cabela's prices and see if they're any cheaper. Cabelas limited their warranty to 90 days (one year for Cabelas brand products), and they haven't lowered their prices.

 

[Shebop]

Bean guarantees your satisfaction. They don't guarantee that whatever you buy there will never wear out. Waders wear out. Expecting otherwise and abusing the satisfaction warranty is low rent.

 

[RichK]

Low Rent??? Whatever...

Why is "Guaranteed to Last" so difficult to understand? I'm not saying that you should expect to pay for one pair of waders for the next 40 years, but you should get a decent amount of use for $300-$450. What's decent? I've heard anglers say they get 6-7 years of regular use from Simms waders, and others say they leak right out of the box. Maybe it's like art: I'll know it when I see it.... ;-)

 

[Shebop]

Simms Wader Warranty

At Simms, we stand behind everything we make. If your Simms product fails due to workmanship or material defect during the life of the product, please return it to us for repair or replacement. This warranty does not cover damages caused by improper care, accidents or the natural breakdown of materials over extended use and time. All defective or damaged products should be returned to Simms for evaluation and will be repaired or replaced at the discretion of Simms Fishing Products.

Seems Simms has a lifetime guarantee too. At least on the part of the equation they can control. So the only thing you gained by buying them at beans is the "entitlement" to decide what natural breakdown is. If you're honest, like the OP, no problem. If you fish them hard for several years and then return them on the grounds that you're not satisfied, that's crap. Hell, there's a post a couple days ago from some guy that bought the wrong size waders, wore them, fell and ripped them, and STILL returned them. That takes serious chutzpah as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RichK]

I was on Simms' site today, and saw their manufacturer defect warranty. I had to speak with a service rep on another matter, and was tempted to ask him what the "life" of a Simms product meant. Simms has a 30 day return option on their waders (for leaks I believe), and will fix one leak for the first year you own the waders. The rest of the leaks are paid for by the consumer. Did I gain anything by buying from Bean? Besides a slightly greater sense that I'm covered if the waders spring a zillion leaks two months from now, I don't know. I take care of all of my gear (I even wipe down leaders after fishing), and haven't had to use a warranty on any of my gear yet. 30 years ago I closed a truck door on a $20 fly rod, but that was a mercy killing...LOL!

I agree 100% about intentional/careless abuse and returning merchandise. I did mention this on the first or second page of this thread, saying that if you wear your waders while training your attack dog, returning them would be wrong.

 

[Deuterium]

I bought a pair of Bean Gore-tex waders when this breathable membrane was just being introduced into waders. These waders had Gore-tex stocking feet instead of the now ubiquitous neoprene. Despite my best efforts to maintain them, within the first year, the Gore-tex feet on the waders began leaking along every seam. I returned them, because I felt this design was faulty and Bean replaced them with their equivalent waders which, by that time, were made with neoprene feet. These replacement waders continue to serve me well.

 

[Shebop]

I had the same experience with probably the same pair of waders. That's exactly what the warranty is for.

 

[JackM]

I am a satisfied customer when I can take unfair advantage of a retailer. Thus to satisfy me, the retailer must allow themselves to be taken advantage of. I prefer "no questions asked" return policies. Then when I return them, I refuse to answer any questions.