Time to Leave them Be (TROUT)

[jifigz]

k-bob wrote:
Thanks last two posts are reminder to keep checking the temperature as you move along ...

for what it's worth here are two smaller streams than anyone would usually want to fish... Poconos mega Rhododendron 61 and 62 after 2 p.m. today... air 25 f warmer.

I like to fish small and tiny streams, but I'd probably just head to the river and crush some smallies and swim when I got too hot.

The notion that a stream has cooled significantly just from a chance in gradient (and presumably more important, shade) is interesting to me. I can understand a lot of share and gradient lowering the stream to some degree, but a huge temp drop? Are we sure some kind of spring didn't rise into these Poconos streams and that is what substantially lowered their temps?

 

[dc410]

I’ll be carpin’! Warm water temps are not an issue at all. Couple the hot weather with some good hot electric fences, fields full of cow pies and burn hazel up past your armpits ... it’s kind of like heaven on earth!

 

[k-bob]

65 at 4 p.m. I'm only taking water temperatures at one point not moving too far up streams... weather on the way.

There are a number of Pocono streams that have either swamps or some kind of impoundment up high those ones might have temperatures fall as they flow down gaining ground water? Today I'm just going to places that I think might be cold in the afternoon, streams I believe are mostly or heavily shaded from their highest headwaters.

 

[jifigz]

dc410 wrote:
I’ll be carpin’! Warm water temps are not an issue at all. Couple the hot weather with some good hot electric fences, fields full of cow pies and burn hazel up past your armpits ... it’s kind of like heaven on earth!

Honestly, that sounds pretty amazing to me. I love fishing for ALL WW species.

 

[wildtrout2]

dryflyguy wrote:
A few of the USGS gauges do have temp sensors on the larger streams,
Delaware, Clarion, and Youghiogheny Rivers.

There's a gauge on Kettle Creek as well. I use it to give me an idea of the conditions on it's tributaries.

 

[troutbert]

k-bob wrote:

There are a number of Pocono streams that have either swamps or some kind of impoundment up high those ones might have temperatures fall as they flow down gaining ground water?

There are several things going on, IMHO. First two obvious things:

Inflow of small tribs that did not originate in swamps up on top, but instead in the drainage of the forested hillslopes the stream is now flowing through. The small tribs are very well shaded, and flow only a short distance, so stay cold.

Inflow of cold groundwater from the same forested hillslope drainage areas.

Then a less obvious thing: As the stream leaves the top of the plateau and begins tumbling down the forested slopes, water in the channel can move out of the channel and into the shallow groundwater of the floodplain, then flow back into the channel, and it is cooled in the process. This can happen at multiple places along the course of the stream.

 

[dryflyguy]

I found it interesting when Mike mentioned how some streams in Schulkill county are cooled by mine water.

The first stream that I fished on Monday, is fed by a sizable mine discharge - which pretty much doubles it's flow with 55 degree water

Above that point, the stream's flow was practically stagnant, with a temp of 65.
Below, it was a cool 58
And provides a nice environment for an abundant population of wild browns

 

[k-bob]

fun idea about infrared thermometer: should be able to read small stream water temp from a bridge. for ex, fluke 59 reads temp of 2 ft circle-shaped surface at 16 ft distance (video below).

I sometimes have road access to a posted section of a small stream, when a long walk around posting is required to get to a public section to fish. take a water temp from bridge before deciding on walking in or trying another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcSOShYmlEo

 

[Dave_W]

Got the following temps with my thermometer yesterday afternoon with air temps around 90:

-Mountain Creek at Mt Holly Springs: 70

-The Run in Boiling Springs: 59

-Upper Yellow Breeches: 68

I didn't get a temp for middle or lower Breeches but it typically goes well over 70 during mid to late summer.

By all means go trout fishing. . . and use your thermometer.

 

[troutbert]

Spring Creek was 68F at 5pm today, at the first parking area upstream from Route 550 and at the Paradise.

My guess is that it will get up to about 74F this weekend.

 

[pcray1231]

Many small looking freestone streams are actually much bigger than they look, with a significant portion underground. Often, these are the very bouldery streams, basically flowing through scree.

You get the full size when you see bedrock, often at waterfalls. But in low water, they can appear dry in some flatter riffs, while still flowing heavy current in the pools.

Those streams tend to stay real cool with so much flow underfmground.

 

[rrt]

I am surprised at the Spring Creek temps, esp with T/b's prediction that it will hit 74 degrees over the weekend.

I haven't fished Spring for a while now for various reasons; but when I did during Trico times, I don't think I ever saw it over 64, though that was in the morning.

Is all the building around the State College area contributing to the higher temps?

Sorry to read this anyhow. Geez, first the pollution problems, then the snails, and now higher temps. You have to wonder if Spring Creek can somehow survive the rapid expansion that is going on in the State College area.

 

[BrookieChaser]

dc410 wrote:
I’ll be carpin’! Warm water temps are not an issue at all. Couple the hot weather with some good hot electric fences, fields full of cow pies and burn hazel up past your armpits ... it’s kind of like heaven on earth!

That was my plan for the weekend too. I was supposed to drive out to Ohio to carp fish with a buddy. But he canceled tonight due to the heat.

I might still try to find some carp around here.

 

[jifigz]

rrt wrote:
I am surprised at the Spring Creek temps, esp with T/b's prediction that it will hit 74 degrees over the weekend.

I haven't fished Spring for a while now for various reasons; but when I did during Trico times, I don't think I ever saw it over 64, though that was in the morning.

Is all the building around the State College area contributing to the higher temps?

Sorry to read this anyhow. Geez, first the pollution problems, then the snails, and now higher temps. You have to wonder if Spring Creek can somehow survive the rapid expansion that is going on in the State College area.

I fished spring a week ago or something and that was after some substantial hot weather and the temp was 60°. I was in the better water downstream of where Logan Branch comes in, however.

 

[troutbert]

rrt wrote:
I am surprised at the Spring Creek temps, esp with T/b's prediction that it will hit 74 degrees over the weekend.

I haven't fished Spring for a while now for various reasons; but when I did during Trico times, I don't think I ever saw it over 64, though that was in the morning.

Is all the building around the State College area contributing to the higher temps?

Sorry to read this anyhow. Geez, first the pollution problems, then the snails, and now higher temps. You have to wonder if Spring Creek can somehow survive the rapid expansion that is going on in the State College area.

I moved here in 1987 and Spring Creek has got up into the low 70s all that time in the summer. I don't think the temperature regime has changed much.

It's very common for it to hit 70-72F. And it hits 74F during really hot weather, and I've taken warmer temperatures than that a few times.

These water temps are taken in late afternoon.

Spring Creek stays cooler than most streams of comparable size.

If anyone is really interested in summer water temps, just go to your local streams, in the afternoons of hot, sunny days and take water temps.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I totally agree with troutbert. I followed the temps at houserville for six or seven years on the middle atlantic river forcast website. The temperature monitor broke a number of years back and USGS never replaced it. Anyway.... It is not uncommon in an average year for Spring creek at houserville to have a number of days where the temp rises above 70 degrees. I have seen up to 75 degrees in weather we are about to experience (although the ater levels were lower than now). During warm periods I took temps at fisherman's paradise and benner springs (Shiloh road) to "calibrate it" to the gauge. The temps at shiloh were typically 2-3 degrees higher than houserville at its peak. Fisherman's paradise was close to houserville, may a degree warmer.

I have never recorded a temp above 68 downstream of bellefonte.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

just checked my emai. The last time the temperature was recorded and reported at houserville was 9/30/2009.

 

[k-bob]

Nice thread. But I had never thought through the idea suggested by Pat Mike and Swattie that the effect of high air temperatures on stream water temperature would be moderated by the stream flow level. The rain probably leads to more groundwater inputs and exchanges with a stream bed.

And of course it is really dissolved oxygen, not water temp itself, that is the issue for fish. We can just measure temp, knowing that cold water tends to hold more oxygen, more easily than we can measure dissolved oxygen itself...Tumbling steep streams should add oxygen, so a steep tumbling one at say 65 may have more oxygen than a flat slow one at the same temp.

 

[k-bob]

full grasp of article below is beyond me... but my reading of figs 7 and 8 is that small PA streams with relatively high ground water inputs have smaller water temp increases in hot weather than other streams do.

http://water.engr.psu.edu/wagener/PublicationsPDFs/HP2011%20Kelleher%20et%20al.pdf

 

[JackM]

"... ground water" in that contribution to the flow usually comes up through springs, seeps and tributaries, is generally cooler, but run-off streams are substantially warmer.