Timber Rattlesnake v. Northern Copperhead

[Swattie87]

Spinoff From the Current Timber Thread:

One thing I’ve found interesting about my venomous PA herp encounters to date…they’ve all been Timber Rattlesnakes. My impression was (and still is) that Copperheads were more numerous and more widely distributed in PA. Is that not true?

I know Timbers in certain areas can become locally very abundant, but why haven’t I seen a Copperhead? I’m sure I’m in and around plenty of places that should have them. Is there some type of significant habitat difference that they prefer that differs from Timbers? I thought they liked similar stuff?

 

[shortrod2]

My experience is limited, but the Copperheads I have seen have fled where as the Timber Rattlers have stayed still.

 

[pete41]

when I was a kid and visited relatives near Hanover,that had a big woods behind them,copperheads were the only concern-grandma actually found one in her kitchen or so the stories go.Seems along the lower susky same was true,yet down in the Va. mountains it was rattlers so maybe copperheads are more numerous in the foothills? yet they use to warn me at the paradise,watch out for copperheads along the fences.Where is PCray when we need him?

 

[njk3395]

The only place I've seen numerous copperheads was around Blue Marsh

 

[lineman]

Copperheads are unlikely to be seen in the northern-tier counties. During the dog days of summer they are likely to become nocturnal due to most of their prey becoming nocturnal also. They are possibly more apt to be around swampy, marshy areas than a rattlesnake. I believe that they are more shy than rattlesnakes (tendency to flee first) and obviously don't rattle, so that may explain less sightings of them.

 

[pcray1231]

I have seen more than a dozen copperheads. More than rattlesnakes. The kicker? ALL of them were on the same day. We were cutting weeds along an access road against a rocky bank of the Kiski River.

In PA, the northern extent of the copperhead range is about I-80. Not saying there's none north of there, but they are certainly rare or absent in the forested northern tier.

As for why you don't see them? Well, for one they're better camoflauged than rattlers, largely nocturnal, and tend to be along larger waterways rather than the little mountain streams.

 

[Swattie87]

I suppose it’s possible I've been around Copperheads and they are fleeing…I’ve never seen one to personally see how they react to human presence in comparison to a Rattler. My thought was that they’d react similar to a Rattler, without the possibly of rattling of course.

Camo better than a Rattler? – Depends on the individual snake and where it’s sitting I guess. Some of the Rattlers I’ve seen have been camo’d pretty well, others not no much. I would think the same with Copperheads.

I’ve noticed all of my Rattlers by sight, not sound. While it’s possible to notice a Rattler by sound (and not a Copperhead), since I haven’t, that can’t explain why I’m not seeing Copperheads.

Are Copperheads more nocturnal than Rattlers in comparison? I spend a fair amount of time each year on larger Trout streams in Central PA, and WW fishing.

 

[FarmerDave]

I'm with Pat on copper heads not being in the northern half with the exception of maybe extreme NE PA.

Northern most boundary is MAYBE the Clarion river. I used to frequent it a lot and never saw one, and in some rather remote locations, too. But I have heard others say they have seen them near piney reservoir. I suspect many of those sightings were however water snakes.

I'd imagine the further south you go, the more copper heads and less timber rattlers.

I've never seen a copperhead, and only a couple rattle snakes and none of those were while fishing. Maybe I am just unlucky. Wouldn't mind seeing one. Key word is seeing.

 

[salmonoid]

Range map (source PFBC)

I think most people in the outdoors who are aware of their surroundings would also become aware of fleeing copperheads. It's not like they have some magic power to silently disappear. That doesn't mean that copperheads may not be quicker to flee when they sense something else but I think that the primary reason that folks don't see them is they are more hidden to begin with. They're already buried in leaves or under rocks.

I'm sure I've walked over rattlers that were hiding out, but I'm doubly sure that I've walked over copperheads while hiking or fishing. And I think that contrary to popular mythology, neither species of snake is aggressive; they don't really want to mess with you at all or even let you know that they are present. They eat mice for a living, not six feet long rats! Their purpose in life is not to mess with humans; we tend to mess with them far more than they mess with us.

And here I thought this thread was going to be some sort of steel cage match bracket - who would win in a match of 'Rattler vs. CuHead?

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Looking at copperhead distribution maps, they show conflicting information as to the range of the Northern Copperhead.

Up until the past 3 years, I used to spend a couple of weeks every year fishing the Kettle and Pine Creek watersheds.

I can tell you there's no shortage of copperheads or rattlers up there. I saw plenty of both!

 

[Swattie87]

salmonoid wrote:
CuHead?

I see what you did there.

 

[pcray1231]

And here I thought this thread was going to be some sort of steel cage match bracket - who would win in a match of 'Rattler vs. CuHead?

Assuming we're talking timber rattlers, the timber wins hands down. It's bigger and much more venomous.

Back to the original topic. I only have the one day of multiple sightings to go on, which isn't a representative sample. But I believe the term "locally abundant" fits here. There are either none, or there's a crapload of them.

 

[duckfoot]

Every stone fence around my area houses at least 500 copperheads. No one moves the rocks on the edges of the fields without a shovel and some thick boots and gloves!

 

[pete41]

match one of our pretty and pretty little corals against any of them.

 

[PAgeologist]

The copperhead I saw fishing one day came after me. I was on the opposite bank and didn't disturb it at all. I dropped a large rock on it and got out of there. Every story I hear about them is that they are fairly aggressive and tend not to flee.

 

[pete41]

Yeah-I have always heard they were more aggressive but wasn't gonna argue.

 

[Brianh]

I came across one about 2 weeks ago on a small creek. I was about 4' away when I spotted it and was surprised it didn't move.

 

[Luke]

While I have encountered a few timber rattlesnakes, I have never seen a copperhead.

From some quick google research, however, I read that their tendancy is to freeze and not flee. They are not considered to be particularly agressive, but this tendancy to freeze along with their very good camoflauge apparently causes problems.

Now watersnakes, which often look like copperheads, seem to sometimes be a bit nasty and head right toward you. They definately give me the heebie jeebies.

 

[k-bob]

I see theres a program at colnel denning St pk at 4 on July 4 where a ranger will discuss and display snakes incl a rattler and copperhead... never seen a copperhead but they sound small and snappy...

 

[outsider]

For those who do not know the color pattern difference between a copperhead and a water snake, one can be mistaken for the other. I found water snakes to be the most aggressive snake in PA. At the lower end of the Kettle Creek C&R is a bridge. There are a bunch of water snakes to be found on the parking lot side.

The only recollection I have of copperheads in the northern tier occurred at the top of Hyner mountain. When I was a teenager my friends and I spent a lot of weekends at a cabin (maybe at the end of Pat's Ridge Road?). The older guys warned us that the woodpile was a hangout for copperheads. So what did we do? We poked the pile apart with a long stick and killed them. That occurred in the 60"s.

There was an article a few years ago in the PA Game News about a woman who was hiking (I think in the northern tier) and was bitten by a copperhead. Wow, what a nasty recovery period she had.