Thinking about a kayak

[tddeangelo]

That’s my intent…. Travel in the boat. Fish mostly on foot. Or anchor and fish.

I’m not at all new to fishing rivers. I’ve fished from a jon boat countless days in the Susquehanna, 20 years ago. Life, kids, mortgage, job…. I’m getting back to it just now.

I spent the weekend wading on the Schuylkill in spots between Shoey and Hamburg. A few fish, nothing exceptional. Was fun to get back out, but frustrating at the limited amount of water I could cover by only wading.

On the flip side, the new Sage Payload is a keeper. Love that rod. Love. It.

 

[pcray1231]

 

[Frederick V. C.]

I have a Pelican sentinel sit on top I purchased last season. 10' and 44 pounds it is easy for me to transport especially since I built custom custom saw horses the same height as my truck bed. It is stable and tracks well though is being used in a lake situation. Pretty bare bones but has two flush mount holders and adjustable foot rests. Works for me

 

[jifigz]

Funny you say that about canoes….

An Old Town Saranac 160 with stabilizers in good shape for a good price just appeared for sale near me.

Looks like a great option, and at 89lbs hull weight, still movable by just myself. I’d have to think up how transport would work with my vehicles but it might be perfect for what I want to do.

I have an Old Town Tripper (thanks to this great forum actually, but that's another story) and I can stand up and fly fish from it it is so stable. I love it. Once you learn how to heft a canoe up onto your shoulders as you are ready to carry it for portage it is easy to carry. The yoke is what you hold it up by. And the superior amount of gear/junk I can take if need be. The canoe is amazing.

 

[tddeangelo]

Found a Native Watercraft Slayer 14.5 for sale that I like. A lot. Nice lookin’ setup with great reviews and a great weight capacity. 14.5’ will be good for less draft… trickier to transport though….

 

[bigjohn358]

Found a Native Watercraft Slayer 14.5 for sale that I like. A lot. Nice lookin’ setup with great reviews and a great weight capacity. 14.5’ will be good for less draft… trickier to transport though….

Anything over 12 foot is better suited for lakes...not rivers, creeks, and streams.

 

[pcray1231]

Agreed on that. 14.5' is EXTREMELY long.

Think of the white water playboat crowd in their little 5 foot whitewater boats. And the crew teams with the super long, fast, skinny boats. Those are the very extreme ends of the spectrum. Shorter and wider is more stable and maneuverable. Longer and skinnier tracks better, glides better, and is faster.

For the most part, you see 9-11 footers as advertised for creeks and rivers, and despite the lower weight capacity, often draft shallower as they leave off the fins and such on the bottom, they're made to turn easy and draft shallow. 12-14 footers tend to be lake boats, made to go straight easily and hold a direction, and frankly, the bulk of the fishing centric scene because yak fishing is centered on the largemouth bass/lake crowd. This is also why many of the rod holders are made for casting rods, and most have special spots for fish finders and stuff as a selling feature.

11-12 footers seems to be the tweener group. Ok on lakes, ok on streams, really best on bigger rivers like the Susquehanna, where you have some of the challenges of both.

14+ feet is really long and would be unwieldy in a smaller creek or faster river.

 

[tddeangelo]

I guess I looked at it that a 14’ canoe would be run in a river….so a kayak should be doable at a similar length..?

It isn’t a hurry or a crisis. I’m leaving in two days to go to the beach anyway…

 

[pcray1231]

True. And I'm not saying you wouldn't get it downriver. But you might as well get a canoe then. Being smaller and more maneuverable, in water and on land, is the advantage of a yak. Carrying more stuff is the advantage of a canoe.

Both yaks and canoes have ones made for moving water and ones made for lakes. There's more than just width/length. There's the way the hull is built, flat bottom or lots of fins? There's rocker, the smile shaped sweep from bow to stern, that shortens the effective length of it and makes it easier to turn than its length would suggest. A 14 foot river canoe will have a lot of rocker. A creek yak will have rocker too for the same reason. You can see in post 22, the 2nd pic. That's an 11 foot boat but both the bow and stern are fully out of the water, and it's full draft portion is only 4 or 5 feet long in the middle. It turns like a shorter boat, it's a creek boat. A 14 foot kayak built for a lake will not have rocker, it was built to stay straight, likely has bottom features to keep it straight too, and the part in the water at full draft will stretch from bow to stern. Some even have rudders.

Bow height is another differentiator. Creek boats often have raised, blunt bows to deflect standing waves and riffle chop, and keep the nose up when you go down a small drop. On a lake or truly large river like the Susquehanna, that same bow acts as a wind sail.... Lake boats tend to have everything above the water line stay real low and flat for wind reasons.

 

[tddeangelo]

Minimal rocker, but also pretty flat on the bottom (ie a bit of keel molded in at the stern, very similar to other SOT shorter boats I’ve looked at). Seems a well laid out fishing boat but longer. 450lb capacity (I’m sure the length aids in that).

 

[bigjohn358]

Minimal rocker, but also pretty flat on the bottom (ie a bit of keel molded in at the stern, very similar to other SOT shorter boats I’ve looked at). Seems a well laid out fishing boat but longer. 450lb capacity (I’m sure the length aids in that).

My Old Town Predator MX is 12' and 450 weight capacity I believe. Its one of the best river kayaks out there if you can still find one.

 

[pcray1231]

Native makes nice boats, the quality will be there. But based on what you said you wanted to do with it, I think a 14 footer is pretty long.

 

[silverfox]

Throwing out another option. Find an old sportspal or myers canoe. The one I have was made by Sportspal in Johnstown PA. It's the one w/ out the welded seams down the sides. Mine's a 14 footer, but there are some smaller ones too.

Weighs about 40lbs. Easy to throw on the roof by yourself. Easy to drag. Unsinkable (they're lined w/ foam). Extremely stable for standing. I ride mine down through riffles standing and casting. W/ a double-blade paddle they're about as quick as any kayak. Draft is maybe a little deeper depending on load. Look for em used on facebook marketplace or craigslist.

I'm anchored up here in slow current fishing for smallies, musky and pike.

 

[tddeangelo]

I actually did see a few of those for sale, believe it or not.

 

[tddeangelo]

As I think about transport and where I'd want to haul the boat, use the boat, etc, I think a kayak makes the most sense.....and 12ft is about the most length, as that would put just over half the hull out the back of my truck bed. I have a friend who can fabricate/weld a hitch receiver support for the hull. A red flag and proper strapping to hold it steady and it should be easy enough to move where I want to. Long trips, our other vehicles have roof racks.

I was at Cabela's for other things and I looked at the Ascend 12T and 128. Both seemed like good options....although I know others have said they're not very desirable. I'm curious to know why these boats aren't a good choice?

 

[pcray1231]

The 12T is 77 lbs and the 128T clocks in at almost 100. Ouch. Those are very heavy yaks. And both are really closer to 13 ft. No hi/low seat either. If I wanted to go Ascend I'd be looking at the 10 footers I think. I wouldn't want to cartop something that long and heavy. Or portage around a dam, or park more than a few yards from the put in. If purely gonna use the pickup, and you wanna get a cart and only launch at nice smooth launches, ok, it'll work. I drag mine up and down banks and at 60 lbs I think I went too heavy, even 2 person carrying, more than 20 yards or so needs a few set down breaks. The 40 pounder I have is tossable and I can carry it alone, it makes a difference.

As far as quality, Ascend is a Cabelas/Bass pro brand. Like most of their branded stuff it is going to come a step above the Walmart/****s yaks like Sun Dolphin, Lifetime, and Pelican, but below the paddle shop brands like Jackson, Hobie, Native, Wilderness Systems, Bonafide, etc. Mostly what you get with higher quality is features like hi/low seats, better thought out rod holders, better hatches that leak less, easier hookups for anchor systems, motors, etc.

If you join me next weekend you can try both of mine. A $200 Pelican and a $1300 Jackson. There are advantages to both.

 

[pcray1231]

P.s. you don't need to go to that much hassle with a truck. Put the tailgate up, let the boats lay on the tailgate at an angle. Tie the nose in only.

 

[tddeangelo]

P.s. you don't need to go to that much hassle with a truck. Put the tailgate up, let the boats lay on the tailgate at an angle. Tie the nose in only.

I did that with a 10' Liquid Logic I had years ago....but longer than that, I figured it was getting to be too much length unsupported....?

Still checking with the "social director" on dates...

 

[tddeangelo]

OK, well, I can put a period on the end of the discussion of what I will get.

Short version- I bought an Ascend 10T today.

Full version-

We are in Chincoteague VA for vacation. I normally use an OSV permit that lets me drive my 4wd pickup on the beach. Great with the kids...can throw all the food, toys, blankets, chairs, etc in the truck, drive a couple miles to get some space, and enjoy.

Got up this morning to learn that they closed off most, if not all (it's not entirely clear yet), of the OSV zone where vehicles can go. Well...crap.

I almost didn't want to come on the trip. The town has been getting busier and busier the last few years, and I put up with it simply because getting away on the beach is worth it. With that seeming to be off the table, I was pretty bummed.

Wife said, "Why don't you call some rental places and rent a kayak to fish for the week?"

I liked that idea...so I started calling.

"Hi, what kind of boats do you rent?"

None of the places could or would answer, and website pics showed 'yaks with no seats (just what's molded into the hull) and no pegs....and prices ranged from $125 to $300 for a weekly rental.

Wife then says "how much are the ones you've looked at?"

I told her.

"Just go get one. You can get away from people while we're down there, and you'll use it here."

So, I'm now the proud owner of a 10T.

And....it does fit nicely in the bed with the gate up! I fasted an old red towel on the bow handle and put the stern in the bed. Put a canoe strap over the hull to hold it down on the latched gate, and a strap from the bow handle to the safety chain slot on my hitch receiver. Didn't budge a bit on a 6 hour drive.

I brought the 7wt Sage and a light spinning rod and I'll get out after it in the bay. Since I've never gotten to explore that part of area here, I'll do some sight seeing as well as fishing...and if I'm lucky catch some dinner. I brought a box of saltwater flies and I have some soft plastics for the spinning rod.

 

[tddeangelo]

Took the boat into the bay today between Chincoteague and the mainland. Just a short paddle and some fishing. I like it! Definitely in the learning curve, and it'll be far more at home in the skinny Schuylkill than in a flatwater bay, but I had a ball fishing from it today.

More to come...