^ great video...stunning scenery and fishing scenes.
(I embedded the video above for more user friendly viewing)
(I embedded the video above for more user friendly viewing)
The Potential of the Lehigh River
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henrydavid
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"Do you ride the bike down the bank with the little kayak in tow?" From my experience in the area he is talking about that would be impossible. Also there are designated launch areas and signs by certain bridges stating that those areas are the only "legal" launch points (not that I haven't been tempted to do so myself).
I've never fished the Lehigh. But it seems like the consensus is there are wild trout and the biggest contributor is the tributaries because of spawning and cold water.
I understand the importance of cold water but a closed season in the river and its tribs during the spawn would help. Realistically there is no way I can see anyone spending 1b to modify a dam to enable cold water release to enhance trout fishing. To me, that's a really hard sell. Dont get me wrong I hope they do it, I'd love to have another excellent big water fishery within a days drive.
Id take a different approach and at a very minimum close the most important tribs to fishing during the spawn and I'd push to close the whole system to fishing during the spawn. There are plenty of states that do this. This is one area where I really think pa is behind the curve.
I understand the importance of cold water but a closed season in the river and its tribs during the spawn would help. Realistically there is no way I can see anyone spending 1b to modify a dam to enable cold water release to enhance trout fishing. To me, that's a really hard sell. Dont get me wrong I hope they do it, I'd love to have another excellent big water fishery within a days drive.
Id take a different approach and at a very minimum close the most important tribs to fishing during the spawn and I'd push to close the whole system to fishing during the spawn. There are plenty of states that do this. This is one area where I really think pa is behind the curve.
Keep in mind, enhancing the fishery may not be the biggest sell in terms of getting funding. The cities of Allentown and Bethlehem would benefit from colder water (less treatment required to process drinking water) and possible additional storage to be used to keep the salt line in the Delaware river below Trenton. Whitewater industry would benefit as well with more consistent WW releases. Some years they get screwed on nearly 1/2 of the scheduled WW releases. Not that I'm crying about that, but benefits all around with more storage.
Can't agree more, PFBC did this on some tribs on Penns during elevated water temps as fish seeked thermal refuge. Fish do the same on tribs in the Lehigh in summer. Would be good to see closures on that and as you said the spawning season. PA is really behind on that as compared to other states trout management programs.
Swattie87
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Browns in PA typically spawn in November or December. I'm not disagreeing that no fishing during the spawning period wouldn't hurt things, but how big of an impact do you think it will make? I don't ever see anyone Trout fishing in November or December, except the hard core guys, like those who frequent this site.
Most guys are hunting during this time, or it's just too cold for most folks. Quite honestly, I very rarely see anyone Trout fishing much past Labor Day, outside of the very popular streams...Penns, Spring, Little J, BFC, etc. Is late season fishing a big thing on the Lehigh?
Most guys are hunting during this time, or it's just too cold for most folks. Quite honestly, I very rarely see anyone Trout fishing much past Labor Day, outside of the very popular streams...Penns, Spring, Little J, BFC, etc. Is late season fishing a big thing on the Lehigh?
Swattie,
What you are not seeing is the hardcore big fish hunters that know where and when to find the bigger fish. Most are spin guys, some keep trophies and virtually none publicly discuss it. Close off sections to protect fish and raise fines
What you are not seeing is the hardcore big fish hunters that know where and when to find the bigger fish. Most are spin guys, some keep trophies and virtually none publicly discuss it. Close off sections to protect fish and raise fines
Swattie87
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Got ya. I know that does happen elsewhere in PA, and there's a handful of guys around on different media's that do show it. You're right, you don't see that happen. Not sure closed season regs would stop it. All of it anyway. As with anything, it would need enforcement.
lycoflyfisher
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I would support closures of certain stream sections due to their use as thermal refuge before I would support system or state wide closures through the fall spawning season. IMO there is more chance for impact by walking on redds post spawn than there is targeting trophy fish in November/ December. I do not see the pressure in that time period that would have a population effect, however that pressure can and does exist in some situations during warmwater periods of July/ Aug of some years.
lycoflyfisher
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What I am implying is that angler pressure is low during this time and it is very possible to avoid stepping on redds, especially on small streams. Fishing can be done from the bank or outside of spawning habitat. Again, I am with Swattie I have never seen fishing pressure significant enough in the late fall in PA (outside of Lake Erie Tribs) to impact spawning rates on a population level. However, when fish congregate at a thermal refuge a smaller amount of angling pressure can have a more significant impact on that fish population. This is my opinion from observation, I am not aware of scientific data to back either argument.
Another check on the million dollar mile idea: A little digging revealed the economic contribution and impact of angling in the 97 miles of River in middle and lower Susquehanna ... Sunbury to Holtwood Dam...as revealed from the angler use and harvest survey. The estimated economic contribution was $24,742 per mile plus $10,000 per mi of economic impact, including 16 full time jobs created by the amount of angler use. The study ran from April to October the end of Sept as I recall and covered all species.
salvelinusfontinalis
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In all honesty, I personally think if the Tailwater Initiative was to truly create a unique and special piece of water in PA, this is its best shot.
Expensive yes, but the draw to it from out of staters would raise tons of money. Pennsylvania has a really diverse array of trout fishing opportunities but nothing like the west. Coupled with the Delaware, Letort, Big Spring, Lackawanna, Penns, Fishing, Spring or any of the 100000000 mountain streams this river would give it a much bigger draw. Once people don't fly west to fish, that money is more likely spent at home. Beyond that, the people flying here instead will boost the economy.
Create enough of these, you have some other expensive options, and It will happen.
I'm curious to krayfish's question myself.
That area is really nice too. The scenery and hikes are amazing. I like Glen Okono to Jeans is really wonderful. So many gorges and places to fish that are beautiful. I always like Jim Thorpe.
1Billion or not. The Lehigh River would be a fly-fishing paradise as a Tailwater.
In someways, it is already, just as it is.
Expensive yes, but the draw to it from out of staters would raise tons of money. Pennsylvania has a really diverse array of trout fishing opportunities but nothing like the west. Coupled with the Delaware, Letort, Big Spring, Lackawanna, Penns, Fishing, Spring or any of the 100000000 mountain streams this river would give it a much bigger draw. Once people don't fly west to fish, that money is more likely spent at home. Beyond that, the people flying here instead will boost the economy.
Create enough of these, you have some other expensive options, and It will happen.
I'm curious to krayfish's question myself.
That area is really nice too. The scenery and hikes are amazing. I like Glen Okono to Jeans is really wonderful. So many gorges and places to fish that are beautiful. I always like Jim Thorpe.
1Billion or not. The Lehigh River would be a fly-fishing paradise as a Tailwater.
In someways, it is already, just as it is.
Fly-Swatter
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That last sentence suggests a different take.
Let me play Devil's Advocate and walk down the path of investing in dam alterations and good ROI. To paraphrase: "If we rebuild it, they will come." We seem to be justifying the exorbitant cost of dam alteration to improve the trout fishery by assuming in-state and out of state tourism dollars will be spent from White Haven to Lehighton. For this to come to fruition, one of two things would need to happen:
1. Many, many, MANY more people would need to frequent the gorge area.
2. The cost of _(whatever)_ in that area would have to skyrocket such that the per capita spend is significantly higher.
Another possibility is we invest in dam repair and the ROI is low. In other words the money is spend but not recuperated.
Of the two scenarios, are we secretly hoping for dam alteration and economic failure? That would mean the gorge would be an outstanding fishery we have mainly to ourselves.
We currently have a situation where we have a good fishery that is not overly crowded nor expensive.
And we want to change this why??
Let me play Devil's Advocate and walk down the path of investing in dam alterations and good ROI. To paraphrase: "If we rebuild it, they will come." We seem to be justifying the exorbitant cost of dam alteration to improve the trout fishery by assuming in-state and out of state tourism dollars will be spent from White Haven to Lehighton. For this to come to fruition, one of two things would need to happen:
1. Many, many, MANY more people would need to frequent the gorge area.
2. The cost of _(whatever)_ in that area would have to skyrocket such that the per capita spend is significantly higher.
Another possibility is we invest in dam repair and the ROI is low. In other words the money is spend but not recuperated.
Of the two scenarios, are we secretly hoping for dam alteration and economic failure? That would mean the gorge would be an outstanding fishery we have mainly to ourselves.
We currently have a situation where we have a good fishery that is not overly crowded nor expensive.
And we want to change this why??
Continuing with your Devil's advocacy, but still a prudent thought whenever one is dealing with dams, dam modifications, or dam construction proposals: One should always ask, what is the life expectancy of the project (dam)?
The public (non-angling vast majority of tax payers) could ask, why not just stock $1 million worth of commercially produced trout per year during the projected life expectancy of the project instead of doing the project. You'll have more trout, possibly more anglers, possibly additional money spent in the area for a cheaper cost, and no red tape costs associated with feasibility studies, etc.
The public (non-angling vast majority of tax payers) could ask, why not just stock $1 million worth of commercially produced trout per year during the projected life expectancy of the project instead of doing the project. You'll have more trout, possibly more anglers, possibly additional money spent in the area for a cheaper cost, and no red tape costs associated with feasibility studies, etc.
salvelinusfontinalis
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It is a differnt take.
Dont get me wrong. If you made the Lehigh 100 percent cold water release you would have a serious fishery and i would love it. I would even suggest planting wild "survior strain" fingerlings from another brown trout fishery initially.
It would be amazing in 7 years.
Id fish it.
Even still. You will have more people but more money. The area would be pressured to be developed. More revenue and the state/ starbucks(insert favorite chain) Gotta get them tax dollars/ profit.
Once quiet gorge pools now with jack-a-moes and papercups.
Becareful what you wish for.
If the Tailwater Initiative made 2 or 3 good tailwaters in the state.
The Lehigh would be the crown jewel, yes its potential is massive.
Dont get me wrong. If you made the Lehigh 100 percent cold water release you would have a serious fishery and i would love it. I would even suggest planting wild "survior strain" fingerlings from another brown trout fishery initially.
It would be amazing in 7 years.
Id fish it.
Even still. You will have more people but more money. The area would be pressured to be developed. More revenue and the state/ starbucks(insert favorite chain) Gotta get them tax dollars/ profit.
Once quiet gorge pools now with jack-a-moes and papercups.
Becareful what you wish for.
If the Tailwater Initiative made 2 or 3 good tailwaters in the state.
The Lehigh would be the crown jewel, yes its potential is massive.
Mike,
You never responded to the question..... What happened to the tail water initiative?
Another question would be, why is the answer always to stock more trout?
Is there anywhere to find a list of lakes with the ability to release multiple depths? Why can't there be a cold bottom release fishery in Western PA, one in Central PA and one in the Poconos / Eastern part of the state? And....how about we don't back up a truck and dump in 50,000 mush bellies. Plant existing wild strains or plant egg boxes in feeders to the tailwater. Let them remain closed to angling for 48 months to allow fish to begin to establish. Guessing you'd have something started that would draw anglers from up and down the East coast. You also close them and feeders from October 30 - April 1.
You never responded to the question..... What happened to the tail water initiative?
Another question would be, why is the answer always to stock more trout?
Is there anywhere to find a list of lakes with the ability to release multiple depths? Why can't there be a cold bottom release fishery in Western PA, one in Central PA and one in the Poconos / Eastern part of the state? And....how about we don't back up a truck and dump in 50,000 mush bellies. Plant existing wild strains or plant egg boxes in feeders to the tailwater. Let them remain closed to angling for 48 months to allow fish to begin to establish. Guessing you'd have something started that would draw anglers from up and down the East coast. You also close them and feeders from October 30 - April 1.
The reason the "tailwater initiative" never really did much is pretty straightforward:
The PFBC owns none of these dams, so they have no control over them.
When is the last time the Corps has created a new coldwater release tailwater?
I don't know the answer to this question, but I think it's been many decades.
At some point policy changed away from favoring cold water release regimes on new projects to run-of-the-river temperature regimes.
I don't know exactly when that changed, but it was a long time ago. My guess is some time in the early 1970s.
Raystown Dam was built in 1973 and has always been operated under run-of-the-river temperature regimes, not coldwater regimes.
The PFBC owns none of these dams, so they have no control over them.
When is the last time the Corps has created a new coldwater release tailwater?
I don't know the answer to this question, but I think it's been many decades.
At some point policy changed away from favoring cold water release regimes on new projects to run-of-the-river temperature regimes.
I don't know exactly when that changed, but it was a long time ago. My guess is some time in the early 1970s.
Raystown Dam was built in 1973 and has always been operated under run-of-the-river temperature regimes, not coldwater regimes.
