Stonecats

[Fishidiot]

jifigz wrote:
There are actual species of "mad toms" and actual species of "stonecats" in PA. I have never heard of anyone refer to the species in the Juniata as a "mad tom" and they are always referred to as "stonecats" or "stony-cats" by the yokels, however I do believe that the species in the Juniata and Susky are actually of the mad tom variety.

Yes - the term "stonecat" is a local colloquial name for any tiny catfish, but usually refers to one of the species of madtoms.

The true Stonecat is a species of madtom found in the western part of the state in the Ohio River watershed. This would be Noturus flavus.

The version we have in the Susky/Potomac watershed is the Marginated Madtom - Noturus insignis. This is the critter that folks on the Juniata are calling "stonecats" and that I'm referring to in the title line of this thread.

 

[Fishidiot]

dc410 wrote:
Do stonecats exist in any of our WW tributaries to the Susquehanna River such as the Swatara, Conodoguinet or Conestoga?

Yes, they're in there (the Marginated Madtom).

They're so small and elusive that many long time river anglers have never seen one and don't even know they exist.

In my experience, they're very hard to see or catch during the day, even though they can be quite numerous in some places. At night, they come out from under rocks and feed in riffles.

 

[dc410]

Thanks, Dave. I think I can modify the Wooly Bomber pattern into a very effective Stonecat (Marginated Madtom) imitation. Definitely gonna give this one a try.

 

[Fishidiot]

dc410 wrote:
I think I can modify the Wooly Bomber pattern into a very effective Stonecat (Marginated Madtom) imitation. Definitely gonna give this one a try.

Excellent. Give it a try and post a pic.

 

[jifigz]

Fishidiot wrote:

dc410 wrote:
Do stonecats exist in any of our WW tributaries to the Susquehanna River such as the Swatara, Conodoguinet or Conestoga?

Yes, they're in there (the Marginated Madtom).

They're so small and elusive that many long time river anglers have never seen one and don't even know they exist.

In my experience, they're very hard to see or catch during the day, even though they can be quite numerous in some places. At night, they come out from under rocks and feed in riffles.

They are actually a cinch to catch and see in the daylight. Just slowly tilt rocks and when you spot one carefully, and LOOSELY, trap it between the cupped hand and the rock. In fact it is probably for this very same fish that I have been a fishing addict and a very serious angler since I was little. I don't come from a "fishing family" but when I was a kid my cousin's husband took me out to the Juniata just below where I currently live. I was probably in 4th grade or so. Anyways, he did what he did and caught some stonecats for the "flow-troll" bucket. He taught me a lot that evening and we caught a lot of fish. I had a blast. I remember pestering my parents to buy me some fishing gear. They thought the hobby wouldn't stick. I guess they were wrong. I go fishing about once every 12 hours or so. Oh yes, the stonecat is very well known around these parts. They are just so darn cute though.

 

[Biggie]

I grew up and still live in the Newport area. We always called them "stonerollers". Never heard of a mad tom or stone cat until maybe ten years ago. When I used to fish bait, while catching helgramites, we would always get a few "stonerollers". What a big bass bait they are. We would catch them by hand sometimes, with a little expierence, you get to know that a larger flat rock in the riffles was where they would be. You would start to lift the rock slightly, and feel them with your finger tips, then move in to catch them. I got pretty good at it and then discovered a trout net was handy to corral them in. Haven't used bait for 20 years, but all this talk about stonerollers is getting me thinking about just going out and catching and releasing a few....

 

[Fishidiot]

Biggie wrote:
but all this talk about stonerollers is getting me thinking about just going out and catching and releasing a few....

We should have a Warm Water Insurgents Stonecat Jam!

We'll need a new motto: "Flatheads are for fatheads!" - or somethin like this.
Our favorite fish is very small...but very cool! :-D

(If I get out later today, I'll see if I can catch a couple.)

 

[Fishidiot]

jifigz wrote:
I don't come from a "fishing family" but when I was a kid my cousin's husband took me out to the Juniata just below where I currently live. I was probably in 4th grade or so. Anyways, he did what he did and caught some stonecats for the "flow-troll" bucket. He taught me a lot that evening and we caught a lot of fish. I had a blast. I remember pestering my parents to buy me some fishing gear. They thought the hobby wouldn't stick. I guess they were wrong. I go fishing about once every 12 hours or so. Oh yes, the stonecat is very well known around these parts. They are just so darn cute though.

Neat personal connection.

A couple years ago I was wade fishing the Juniata near Thompsontown and there were a couple very young kids playing along the shoreline behind me with plastic shovels, and buckets and such. All of a sudden one of them started yelling, "Daddy, I got a stonecat! I got a stonecat!" The kid was running along the shore with his bucket like he'd found a big nugget of gold.

 

[afishinado]

Great thread.

I grew up along the Susky in NE PA.

I picked bait in the River and fished "caddies" (madtoms) and "clippers" (hellgrammites) all through my youth.

If you don't tie flies, try a decent sized sculpin pattern to imitate stonecats/madtoms. SMB are not pattern fussy at all like the colored fish. Get it down near the bottom and hang on! Lotsa fun.

 

[dc410]

Fishidiot wrote:

dc410 wrote:
I think I can modify the Wooly Bomber pattern into a very effective Stonecat (Marginated Madtom) imitation. Definitely gonna give this one a try.

Excellent. Give it a try and post a pic.

Here is a photo of the Wooly Bomber pattern that I modified into a Stonecat. I'm glad I took a snapshot of it before I took it fishing last evening. I hit a small local WW stream on a stretch that I had not fished all year. Hoping to get into a few smallies with my new Stonecat pattern. The stream was extremely low and very clear which made fishing challenging.

As I was sneaking along the edge of the creek looking for some structure to cast to I spotted a decent size carp swimming directly away from me. The chances weren't good but it is very tough for me not to take a shot at one when I see it regardless of the situation. I only had 3X tippet on - but what the heck! After three or four false casts I finally got enough line out to get the fly in front of the departing carp. When it hit the water the fish turned and came straight at it. I started stripping and the carp followed for a good 25 feet and finally took the fly. I strip set - stung the fish and it was gone. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. A little further down the stream I saw another even larger cruising carp. I should have took the time to swap out to a heavier tippet - but I didn't. I cast in front of this carp and it too immediately turned and came to the stonecat pattern. I started stripping and again the carp chased the fly for a very good distance and finally sucked it in. After a solid hook set it was game on! This fish totally dogged it on me for the first 20 seconds or so and I thought it was going to be an easy one. All of a sudden it took a crazy run on me directly downstream. With my reel screamin' and line leavin' I had to do something as it headed directly for a huge debris jam 20 yards downstream. I cranked two clicks onto my drag which slowed it a bit but didn't turn it. I was definitely on the edge of what to do so I decided to put one more click of drag on and hope for the best. The last click was too much. The 3X tippet popped and the carp departed with the stonecat pattern stuck in its lip. Wow! That was an awesome carp encounter. I have never had a carp (let alone two of them) actually chase down a fly for that kind of distance. Sometimes the fish that you don't land can leave the biggest impressions on you. I will need to get back to the vise and tie up some more stonecats. I'm sure that smallies love them. Although I couldn't prove it from last nights outing. However, it seems the carp are fairly fond of them as well.

 

[Fishidiot]

Interesting report John - time to get back to the vise!
Yuh gotta love that long slender profile - I'm convinced it can trigger strikes. They work well fished dead drift as well.

I haven't targeted carp with stonecat flies, but I can attest that just about any WW stream fish will eat 'em. In particular, channel cats like 'em. Large fallfish and large rock bass are fans too.

 

[barbless]

In Maine, madtoms are grayish black. An articulated muddler with a brass bullet head in the proper color is a really close imitation, in terms of both shape and how they swim.

The live ones will definitely sting you with their pec fins. Ouch. I'd rather get snagged by a #4 hook, as long as it's barbless.

 

[Fishidiot]

Even Greedy Greenies love 'em.

Course, they'll eat anything.

 

[Fishidiot]

Got out this morning for some "stonecattin" and the bass responded with enthusiasm.

After awhile, I put the fly rod back in the car and decided to do some seining to see if I could catch a live stonecat. Took awhile, but did manage to get this fella. This is typical of the marginated madtoms I'm used to seeing in central PA. Note the pink and light brown tones. Also, note the very long, slender body.
When I released this fella, he shot right out into a riffle and was back under a rock in seconds.

Cool critters indeed.

 

[Fredrick]

Thanks for sharing . Do they have swim bladders or do they move around like a darter.

 

[Fishidiot]

Fredrick wrote:
Do they have swim bladders

I'd assume so as they're a species of catfish.

Whatever the case, they're bottom dwelling critters and I usually fish this fly with hops and twitches across the bottom. However, fast strips that impart a strong wiggle with the fly further up in the water column can work well too.

I often fish these flies (and others) pretty aggressively during the warmer months of the year if I'm searching. If I'm sight fishing to particular fish, I like to let the stonecat drop to the bottom and I'll crawl it across the bottom. Bass, particularly bigger ones, will often swim rapidly up to the fly and scrutinize it carefully before sucking it in.

 

[laszlo]

I'd imagine an olive brown clouser would do the trick too.

 

[CenMD4458]

I had an experience this week on a stream down here in Maryland that I had to share considering this recent post on madtoms and stonecats. I was fishing my favorite WW stream that I've caught some nice smallies (and largemouth) from.

Smallie#1
Smallie#2
Smallie#3

After working my way upstream throughout the day, I started walking down stream. I approached one hole or area of slack water where I regularly see(and sometimes catch) some nice smallmouth. The attached picture shows this stretch, looking upstream.

WW stream image

I hopped down from the big rock upstream on the left with the blue arrow and was promptly greeted by a northern water snake in the shallows (circled green), who had recently gotten a meal. As I approached, he began to work down stream away from me (and right onto the small, narrow and only path downstream, where the orange diamond is).

At first, I thought he had some type of rodent. But the longer and better look I got, I couldn't figure out what he had. It appeared almost 3-4 inches in length, dark brown/almost black, and very shiny/slimy. I then thought maybe it was newt or salamander of some type.

Northern water snake with his meal


I gave him some time and distance in hopes he would clear the path and I could continue down stream. Of course, he just posted up inches from the path and began working on his meal. I continued to get closer to try and make my way past while figuring out what he had captured. My last thought as I waded out into the stream in order to avoid him was that it was a small catfish, as I thought I saw gills on the creature in the snake jaws that were flaring as the snake chomped and bit down. I knew not of madtoms or stonecats and figured this wasn't at all likely for a small catfish to be in this stream or section, especially since I'd never seen one with all times I've fished here.

I then log on here the next day and see the post on the blog about these little catfish, that inhabit shallow,riffle areas of streams and are a favorite of smallmouth. It all made sense. With the research I've done since and learning that the big smallies and madtoms/stonecats being of no coincidence, I've since ordered some madtom lures(because I still do some spin tackle fishing for big bass) and flies in hopes of hooking into the big smallies I've seen but not yet caught.

 

[Fishidiot]

CenMD4458 wrote:
My last thought as I waded out into the stream in order to avoid him was that it was a small catfish, as I thought I saw gills on the creature in the snake jaws that were flaring as the snake chomped and bit down. I knew not of madtoms or stonecats and figured this wasn't at all likely for a small catfish to be in this stream or section, especially since I'd never seen one with all times I've fished here.

I then log on here the next day and see the post on the blog about these little catfish, that inhabit shallow,riffle areas of streams and are a favorite of smallmouth. It all made sense.

Neat report. It does appear that the snake has captured a stonecat.

 

[CenMD4458]

Thanks FI, I appreciate it.