Stockies in PA

[CaptMatt]

Growing up in PA and living there for 25 years obviously caused me to love fly fishing. The last few years I've been spoiled with trips out west and ocean fish. All of these, for the most part, are wild native fish. with the approaching season and all the discussion about stocking fish I realized that it is sad that Pennsylvania doesn't hold a more sustainable wild trout population -Brook trout aside. We have to rely on the stock trucks for most of our fishing. I didn't realize that it bothered me a little until recently. Im not saying that I won't fish for stockies, their better than nothing. It's just that there is something sentimental about a wild fish and I wish that they had more opportunity in PA. What are some thoughts? It's a slow day at school.

 

[jayL]

It's sad, but I accept it.

I have no problem catching pacific salmon in new york, so why would I have a problem with stocked fish in PA? Just because the salmon are bigger and stronger isn't reason enough. When it all boils down to it, I still drift off into my own little world when fishing... stockies or not. I still get angry when I miss a fish and happy when I land one... again, stockie or not.

It's fishing. I kind of wish there was more of a self sustaining population, but I also wish that I could ride a horse out west and decide that 400 acres was mine because I drove a stake into it, wish I could pay 50 cents a gallon for gas, wish the flyers were still the broad street bullies (i never got to see this, but I'd give anything for a chance to timetravel to do so).

In my 22 years, I guess I've never seen anything better... so I'm ok with it. I guess that's the real shame for me.

 

[jrcll]

i know what you mean , i`ve been going to montana for the past 7 yrears and fishing the missoula area, catching a fish on the clark , the bitterroot, the rock and the blackfoot knowing that these fish are all wild is really satisfying and ya do get spoiled but i`m not complaining, i still look forward to the fishing we have in pa

 

[CaptMatt]

Don't get me wrong. I'm taking a couple weeks off guiding this summer to trout fish and I'm going home to fish PA, stocked fish or not. I appreciate them to. They did help teach me how to fish.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear CaptMatt,

There are more wild trout streams in PA than many people are willing to admit. They aren't all Class "A" big name streams, and unfortunately many of those streams also get stocked and the fish get harvested because the prevailing angler's mentality in PA is that trout come from trucks and they are supposed to go directly into a frying pan starting the 3rd Saturday in April.

When I can fish a riffle on a Lycoming County Special Regulation stream on Opening Day and catch a half dozen perfectly colored and shaped 7 inch brown trout and two pasty 10" stocker rainbows I know that there are plenty of stream bred trout in that creek.

I see people with wild fish mixed in with their stockers on Clarks Creek alot too and it bothers me a bit. I don't mind people keeping fish, I just wish that more of them had an appreciation for what they were keeping. Trout don't grow on trees, but they don't all come from a tanker truck either.

Regards,
Tim Murphy

 

[JackM]

I am stumped by the premise of the original post, that is, that PA is lacking in wild trout fishing opportunities. If you fished a different Class A stream in PA each day, it would take you well over a year to fish them all. Then you can start on the unstocked Class B & C waters, which can be pretty good fishing as well.

 

[jayL]

I think he's a bit sad that wild trout aren't front and center in PA. Quite frankly, though, it's debatable whether that's a good thing or not.

One minus to maintaining an exclusively wild fishery is that bait fisherman (and fly fisherman with stringers, to be fair) would end up killing ALOT more wild fish.

 

[tomgamber]

jayL wrote:
I think he's a bit sad that wild trout aren't front and center in PA.

I don't see a half million people going out, all on the same day, to catch bass or walleye...

One minus to maintaining an exclusively wild fishery is that bait fisherman (and fly fisherman with stringers, to be fair) would end up killing ALOT more wild fish.

They already do, this is the problem. I also think the "bait fisherman (and fly fisherman with stringers, to be fair) " wouldn't make those their first picks. Especially with a 2 fish limit and a nine inch minimum. Although the latter would be preferable to most any fisherman if thats what were being stocked as well.

 

[CaptMatt]

I am stumped by the premise of the original post, that is, that PA is lacking in wild trout fishing opportunities. If you fished a different Class A stream in PA each day, it would take you well over a year to fish them all. Then you can start on the unstocked Class B & C waters, which can be pretty good fishing as well.




Jack, I'm well aware of the class A wild trout streams in the state. I don't have a year to fish them and neither do most working class folks. On many of our most popular, and easy to reach streams stocking is only means of trout fishing. Out West 95 percent of every major system has wild browns, rainbows and cuts. I've fished class A wild trout waters a lot but that's a different style of fly fishing. It's what I envision brook trout fishing as and I enjoy it on occasion. I'm stating that, with the exception of Spring Creek, Penns and a few others, that you don't find wild rainbows and browns in abundance like other states, NC, WY, MT, etc...

 

[jayL]

I don't see a half million people going out, all on the same day, to catch bass or walleye...

I meant in the state's eyes. And they are not. The trout stocking program is clearly one of, if not the highest priority initiatives for the state IMO. This is in semi-direct opposition to the best interest of wild trout.

They already do, this is the problem. I also think the "bait fisherman (and fly fisherman with stringers, to be fair) " wouldn't make those their first picks. Especially with a 2 fish limit and a nine inch minimum. Although the latter would be preferable to most any fisherman if thats what were being stocked as well.

You are right... but it's kinda like the cartoon of the little devil talking to a guy complaining about the heat in Arizona or somewhere like that. You thought it was hot here....

I agree that a 2 fish limit and a raised minimum to prevent culling would be awesome. I just don't see it happening. The typical bait fisherman wouldn't support it and it would show in fishing license sales. I don't think the state is willing to allow this. It's pretty clear to me that this is the PAFBC's main customer group and they'll jettison the rest before they do so with them. While the larger fish would gain favor with these types, the lower limit would not.

IMO, of course.

 

[ryanh]

Capt Matt,
You are not being honest with your self. This is an issue that I have wrangled for 4 years now. My favorite local salmon river in Alaska was the Russian. I used to go about once a week after work.....It was 120 miles away....ONE WAY! The travisty of the East is distance. Out here if you can't walk to it it is far. Out west a ten hour drive is just over the next ridge. If you made PA the size of Montanna you would include three more states.

Also, Penns Creek is as about as western as a stream gets IMO.

Then there is eastern Monanna. I'd rather live in Queens NY for fishing opertunity then there! Its all perspective. There are more people out here. There is more sprawl. The mountains are less rugged but it is still here. You just have to seek it out.

I agree though there are a lot of "marginal waters here". I often dream about what used to swim in the stream down from my house 300 years ago. I am not being hard on you. Like I said I have fought this issue with myself since moving back from out west. I hate the Loyalhanna DHALO, yet I go there cause it is the closest to me. But if you draw a 120 mile radius around my house (like my local H2O's in Alaska) My God there are 5 or 6 Blue Ribon Wild trout streams.

We just have to seek it out. And maybe that is for the best.

At least thats what I tell myself

 

[tomgamber]

Anglers caught an estimated total of 6,770,094 trout on streams during the spring of 2005. Approximately 25.8% of the total catch (1,745,373 trout) occurred on opening weekend. Anglers released 63.1% (4,272,571 trout) of the trout caught on stocked trout streams over the course of the study period. The estimate of trout caught is more than 1.5 times the number of adult trout stocked; there are at least two contributions to this effect. Based on the 63% release rate, there appears to be a high level of recycling of stocked trout. Also, there are wild trout in about 50% of the streams stocked with trout that would also contribute to the trout catch.

From the PFBC's own report on stocked waters...You do the math. The last line is enough for me. I have seen people take a limit and dump it in the cooler in the trunk and go back for another. I bet they were just as honest in their survey answers.

 

[CaptMatt]

Ryan, Im not sure what your talking about. Im not talking about my willingness to fish every stream I can. Im simply saying that Id like to catch some BIG OL Trout that are wild in pa. Not the ones that you hold in the palm of your hand and snap a picture with a camera held 6 inches away. Of course I love them all the same. I wish PA was as big as MT or Alaska then I would have a little more private time on my favorite waters.

 

[troutbert]

PA isn't Montana, that's sure. But there are loads of wild trout, both brookies and browns. The browns aren't just in a few streams, they are in many hundreds of them.

I think a lot depends on where you live. To people in the northwest corner of PA, or in SW PA, or in SE PA it may seem like slim pickings. I remember a poster from SE PA, some years ago on this board, expressing doubt that there were ANY wild trout in PA. He thought we were imagining things.

In central PA, NC PA and even NE PA, there are lots of wild trout. In some counties streams that hold wild trout aren't the exception, they are the rule.

Besides all the unstocked Class A, B, C, D streams others have mentioned already, there are also STOCKED Class A, B, C, D streams.

 

[jayL]

If that poster still reads this board and still wishes to see wild fish in SEPA, pm me and it shall be done.

If you are expecting Montana of PA, then I'm pretty sure you'll never be happy. The same goes for expecting Alaska of Oregon, or Oregon of Pulaski, etc.

 

[ryanh]

The largest trout I have caught were PA trout. Three of which lived within 100 feet of each other. All were wild. Like I said dude, they are here.

Hit Penns,
Spring
Fishing
Little J
Spruce
Falling Springs
Letort
Breeches
Yellow
and then get back to me.

All of these streams are in my half of the state (meaning I can hit in a day or weekend). All will produce wild fish. Some will produce fish pushing 2 feet.

If this don't do it for you (collectively) then the only thing you could do is move to the water. Some of us have. You can not have it all.

 

[CaptMatt]

Now I understand what your saying and Ive fished those streams and caught some nice wild fish but respectfully, your missing my point. Man you guys read into things way too much, my original post is getting distorted a little. I’m not saying that the trout aren’t there I’m saying that they are not as large or abundant as other places and there’s no reason for it because the state has that potential.

If the wild fisheries are so great in PA then why do I read endless posts about stock trucks and dates? There’s even a link to it on our site here.

PS. You say go to the water. Isnt that how I became "spoiled" in the first place? :-D

 

[ryanh]

Cause thats what Joe six-pack wants. Dates and locations of where he needs to be to get his limit and then go back home and watch TV.

Thats fine and dandy with me. I never met a drunk dude in a lawnchair throwing doughballs to trout inthe Narrows. Its too much effort.

This is the typical PA fisherman. A few days a year. Powerbait and beer. Thats what they want.

On another note. We are getting ready for the smokies trip. Every single thing that i read about the GSMNP states how over crowded it is. You know I can't remember seeing another angler (that wasn't in our group) on the water last year.

Its amazing how rapidly the crowd diminishes as you venture from the blacktop.

 

[CaptMatt]

I meant posts on this site. And I dont invision anyone on here as mentioned above.

 

[jayL]

Let the flames commence.

I'll have beer and powerbait on the first day of trout.

I always do. Its the only time that I get to see any of my friends since we've all dispersed to college and jobs. The beer will be warm and the bait will be cheap. I keep my spinning rod handy for this one block party affair per year. Nothin wrong with a good time folks! I catch probably 50 trout doing this. I release them all. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if I didn't catch a single fish.

Once the crowds thin and my friends go home, then I begin to hike with the fly rod and actually get some fishing done. It's obviously more fulfilling. I'll tell you this though... most of the draw for me on these early season stockie trips is the beer and lawnchairs with good friends and good food. Lighten up on it people.