Stockies in PA

[tomgamber]

CaptMatt wrote:
I’m not saying that the trout aren’t there I’m saying that they are not as large or abundant as other places and there’s no reason for it because the state has that potential.

I lived in Idaho for 5 years. I never fished more then 3 hours from Boise Idaho. Yes, I caught a lot of wild fish. Caught some stocked ones too. Lets not forget, you don't get wild browns unless some of them were stocked, at some point in time, somewhere.

I can get from Greensburg to Allentown in 4 hours. It takes 12 hours to get from Boise to Bonners ferry to the north and 6 hours to get from Boise to Idaho Falls to the east and 3 hours to drive south to the Nevada border.

The Salmon River in Idaho is the largest single river to flow entirely within one states border.

80% of Idahos power come from hydroelectric dams.
In PA, 1...thats ONE percent comes from hydro power. There is just a heck of a lot more water there than there is here. There are also less then 3 million people in the whole state which it didn't even become until 1890, I believe.

Thats about 150 years of more pollution and development and harvest, and abuse...so yes, theres better fishing out west. But when you consider what these fish in PA have survived...its pretty damn good here too. I grew up here and Pa is the only place I would have ever moved to, from Idaho

 

[Crotalus]

When you start talking about raising minimum sizes and lowering creel limits you get into the same arguments that are encountered with point restrictions when talking about deer hunting.

You have two groups of people that need to be satisfied - the guys who are into the quality and the guys who are in quantity.

There are many deer hunters out there that are perfectly happy shooting a spike on the first day of the season and have no use for point restriction, then you have the guys who want to see bigger deer, even at the expense of seeing fewer deer.

The problem for the agencies is striking the balance to keep both groups happy (or atleast satisfied) without alienating the other.

I think the PFBC might have an easier time of it since they can designate different streams with different regs easir than the PGC can designate different regs for hunting areas. you also have the big difference in that anglers can practice C&R.

i am glad i am not making those decisions

 

[Stone_Fly]

You poor guys don't know anything about trout in PA, there are over 3300 streams with wild trout in them and over 7700 miles of water to catch wild trout in. I'll venture a guess that that is more then every state but MT and AK. Stop whining in your beer get a map and the wild trout listing and go exploring.
There is only one state with more river mileage then PA and that's AK. PA has 86,000 miles of river to enjoy with more then trout fishing.
And I'm sorry fishing isn't the same as hunting when it come to size limits, bigger fish beget bigger fish. If the size limit on all wild streams was higher then all the wild trout would be bigger. Who cares about the stocked trout anyway, there only there for one reason, and that is to cook. Take the 5 fish limit off stoked fish and make the size limit 5 inches, it doesn't matter they all die from either harvest or hunger.

 

[Stone_Fly]

Capt Matt, there would be larger fsh in wild trout streams in PA if 2 things happen, one the size limit goes up to say 18 inches, and we improve the habitat.

 

[tomgamber]

Stone_Fly wrote:
I'll venture a guess that that is more then every state but MT and AK.
There is only one state with more river mileage then PA and that's AK. PA has 86,000 miles of river to enjoy with more then trout fishing.

Idaho Rivers: None Can Compare

* There are 93,000 miles of streams in Idaho. Idaho Rivers are home to 19 species of fish that are listed as endangered, threatened, or of "special concern."

* 420,000 anglers fish on Idaho rivers annually.

* Idaho has over 3100 miles of whitewater suitable for rafting, kayaking or canoeing.

* 2000 miles of Idaho's rivers are designated as State Protected Rivers due to the efforts of Idaho Rivers United.

* Over 400 miles of Idaho's Rivers have minimum streamflow water rights which help protect fish, wildlife, water quality, and recreational values.

* 577 miles of Idaho rivers are currently designated as National Wild, Scenic or Recreational Rivers.

* There are over 232 major dams and 777 major irrigation diversions on Idaho rivers.

* Idaho hydropower generates enough electricity for 320,000 to 340,000 all-electric homes built to energy efficient standards or 175,000 built to the present state standard.

Keep on guessing there stoney...i'l just use the facts...its got PA by 10000 miles. And not little dinky streams either...The Clearwater flows at 15,500 cfs average thoughout the year...as I said more water. Besides, miles don't hold fish...volume does. Either way your guessing is wrong.

I'm not complaining about PA fishing...like I said I wouldn't live anywhere else...I'm arguing Capt Matt's claim that it could be as good as out west...the water volume and protections just aren't there. Less people fishing and a lot more water...But again, its pretty good in spite of that.

 

[CaptMatt]

Now hold on a minute. I never said PA could be as good as out west, are you kidding me? I said it could have more wild fish and Im right.

StoneFLy, maybe you an I should fish together and ill show you just what I know about trout in PA.

 

[tomgamber]

CaptMatt wrote:
I’m saying that they are not as large or abundant as other places and there’s no reason for it

And while I agree with the first part of that...all I'm saying is there are reasons for it...

 

[CaptMatt]

Of course there are reasons but there not good ones. Acid mine pollution, over harvest, littering etc...

 

[JackM]

Let's be realistic, snow melt and non-snow precipitation in the Rockies is cleaner than the precipitation in PA. Bug life is more abundant out West and consequently, the waters can hold more and bigger trout per volume and per mile. Beyond that, I would suspect that cooler water for longer stretches contributes to better biomass in the mountains out West. PA's highest peak is only around 3200 feet above sea level.

 

[Squaretail]

Tom G,
I know I've read many times all over the internet that PA is second to only Alaska as far as river milage is concerned and the top dogs I know say this as well. I have to wonder where your numbers come from? I certainly dont mind if you are correct. I would simply like to know if Pa is second in stream mileage or not.

 

[vcregular]

Squaretail...I was thinking the same thing.

http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20010518sojournhs2.asp

"Pennsylvania has 83,261 miles of flowing water -- second only to Alaska..."

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear squaretail and vcregular,

Maybe in Idaho when the irrigation pumps are running they count those ditches as "stream miles?" :-D

Regardless of how they do the figuring to me it's only logical that we cannot have the wild trout fishing that many other States have simply because we have 3 to 5 times the amount of people living in far less than half the space.

Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Squaretail]

Absolutely. In that link vc posted it tells how much is affected by pollution alone. Just one of the side effects of our population and amount of time we've been in these parts. Your point definatley valid.

 

[tomgamber]

"but as many as one-third of those rivers, creeks and streams have been polluted by acid mine drainage, sewage, agricultural runoff or urban storm water runoff."

Had he posted the next line of the article...(above) my point might have been more apparent...you can't have or put trout in any of those.

heres the link:
http://www.idwr.state.id.us/water/h2ofacts.htm

Here's PA...:
http://tinyurl.com/2c27wd

Lets see 93,000-83,000=10,000-another 11,000 polluted=72,000

Its not a "my state can beat up your state issue" If you don't have the water and the undeveloped space you can't have as many fish. ID also stocks 5 million trout every year. So they're not all wild either. But they don't stock brookies anymore. They do stock browns and they compete with the native rainbows and cutts like non-native fish do here in PA. I left there in 1994 when the population was about 100K just in Boise...its now pushing 250K according to those who live there. I haven't been able to find any number that high for that area. So they may have problems coming. But they still have less than 1.4 million in the whole state.
Check out this graph and tell me what could happen to their water supply.
http://www.npg.org/states/id.htm