Steelhead Info for Jammers this weekend

[wbranch]

jifigz wrote;

Water was 36° on lower elk on Sunday

Wow, that is very cold. When I was up two weeks ago the water temperature was still in the mid to upper 40's and the bite was on pretty good. My two buddies went up just four days after I got home and literally crushed them. I hope you do better on your next trip. I'll go back again if the air temperature is no colder than 46 degrees.

 

[edhank]

FWIW, got up early Saturday morning and made the drive from Somerset. Damn near wrecked the truck soon after getting on 79. Was rubbing an eye and crossed an icy bridge and almost lost it. Got to the mouth of elk, and there was 6 inches of snow in the parking lot. got all the garb on while a squall was pummeling us. Left the truck door open during the said squall, and everything got covered with snow inside the truck. Listen to some guy coming off the creek and said the water was raising and dropping while fishing. I got in the creek about 100 or so yards up from the boat ramp and fished. Water that was at the top of my thigh soon was at my belly button. Very weird. Line was icing up the whole length that was on the water. Of course the guides were icing up badly.
Transferred to Legion park. much the same as above. icing lines and guides. snow in the face, and the leaves. Oh my, the leaves! Best leaf hatch EVAH! Fished an hour or two more. No fish at either location. Got back in the truck, warmed it up, drive to International Angler, and gave them some of my money. Then back to Somerset. Best day, evah! Nice trip with a good friend shooting the bull the whole way up and back.
I should have known better, gale force wind warnings with lake effect snow. Still a good day.

 

[PennKev]

I was not part of the jam but did fish last Sunday. Despite the snow, stream conditions were pretty good IMO. I did OK hooking about a dozen and landing most. I think the biggest thing nowadays is just the overwhelming number of guys on the water. I think that if you had half the number of anglers you would still have a crowd and you'd have far better reports. With the current number of fish and fisherman, it can be hard to squeeze out a even a few fish if you aren't lucky enough to find the right spots unoccupied at the right time. The reality is that there is a lot of bad water on the Erie tribs and without the insane numbers of fish anymore, those spots just won't produce while a good stretch of water will still generate a lot of hook ups. Ironically, good flows and color can actually make it more difficult to catch fish since you can't see what the stream bottom looks like. Most areas of solid bedrock won't hold fish well and if you can't clearly see the bottom composition/structure and don't know the streams well, you are at a huge disadvantage. In years past, anglers could get away with fishing less than ideal spots because there really were that many fish. Not anymore.

 

[wbranch]

PennKev wrote;

I was not part of the jam but did fish last Sunday. Despite the snow, stream conditions were pretty good IMO. I did OK hooking about a dozen and landing most. I think the biggest thing nowadays is just the overwhelming number of guys on the water. I think that if you had half the number of anglers you would still have a crowd and you'd have far better reports. With the current number of fish and fisherman, it can be hard to squeeze out a even a few fish if you aren't lucky enough to find the right spots unoccupied at the right time. The reality is that there is a lot of bad water on the Erie tribs and without the insane numbers of fish anymore, those spots just won't produce while a good stretch of water will still generate a lot of hook ups. Ironically, good flows and color can actually make it more difficult to catch fish since you can't see what the stream bottom looks like. Most areas of solid bedrock won't hold fish well and if you can't clearly see the bottom composition/structure and don't know the streams well, you are at a huge disadvantage. In years past, anglers could get away with fishing less than ideal spots because there really were that many fish. Not anymore.

This post is 100% spot on. I can think of many sections over 150 feet long that the bottom is one solid vein of bedrock with absolutely no fish holding structure when it is low and clear but when it is up and green I can find fish there. Guys who are unfamiliar with Elk are truly at a disadvantage when the water is up and colored. I like it both ways. The mystery of fishing water I know that is up and green or sight fishing with 5X and #16 - #18 nymphs when it is low and very clear.

 

[jifigz]

Considering that was only my second trip to Erie ever means I am rather unfamiliar with all of the streams there. The first trip I caught lots of fish and the second trip I caught none. I do know this. Both trips I was left with a feeling of wondering why I left the high quality waters of central PA to fight the crowds and fish streams that are clearly not as good to look for bigger than average rainbow trout.

 

[Acristickid]

Erie is about conditions- there are times to go and not times to go.

People usually have wishful thinking about fishing trips. Once you get skunked a couple of times on a 3-4 hour round trip people learn.

Brandy Run gage at 1.80 is good. Also this past weekend was the veterans holiday weekend- most likely the busiest steelhead weekend of the year.

Want sparse crowd?- Go on the first few days of deer rifle season.

 

[PennKev]

acristickid wrote:
Erie is about conditions- there are times to go and not times to go.

People usually have wishful thinking about fishing trips. Once you get skunked a couple of times on a 3-4 hour round trip people learn.

Brandy Run gage at 1.80 is good. Also this past weekend was the veterans holiday weekend- most likely the busiest steelhead weekend of the year.

Want sparse crowd?- Go on the first few days of deer rifle season.

Avoiding crowds by going during deer season just doesn't work the way it once did.

It's impossible to tell what will be a busy/crowded day anymore. There was a time when you could avoid crowds by going on the rifle opener, or going earlier in the fall than everyone else, or going in bad weather, or going during a weekday. It just doesn't really matter anymore.

The crazy thing is that it has been several years of much lower returns, yet the crowds don't seem to be thinning any.

 

[tomgamber]

If you want to avoid crowds, walk. Even on the busiest days, if you want to get away from the crowds you can, But Akid is right. You can fish alone or with 100 guys shoulder to shoulder, if the stream conditions aren't good, you aren't going to catch anything. If you want to fish, go. Deal with the situation when you get there.

 

[wbranch]

Both trips I was left with a feeling of wondering why I left the high quality waters of central PA to fight the crowds and fish streams that are clearly not as good to look for bigger than average rainbow trout.

Everyone who posted after your 2nd post seems to have some experience, probably more than my 10 years of Erie steelhead, and everything they said is true.

I was fortunate to have a friend take me out for the first two years until I got the lay of the land and knew where to go and how to navigate all the rural roads. True there are some good waters in central PA but even on some of them, during certain hatches or on holiday weekends you are going to find lots of company and may not even be able to find a place to park.

It would be a very special central PA stream (I'm not aware of any) where you can go and consistently catch, on flies, rainbows 22" - 26" and not that uncommon to get a 27" - 28" steelhead. It is all about location, knowing where to expect to find fish during the September to early December period (longer if you can stand the cold weather and snow) Also knowing when to go is very important especially if you don't know your way around very well.

Being retired, or having the ability to go at a moments notice, is very important. I would never go when it has been low and clear for many days. Nor would I go if it has been raining, a steady hard rain, for days on end. I follow the weather reports, and stream levels, on www.fisherie.com. I like to arrive on falling high water after the rain has ceased. Maybe the first few hours will still be off color but those spate streams drop and become less dirty very quickly. A poster said when Brandy Run is 1.8 feet it is a good flow. I've always been told by regulars that when Brandy is 5 cfs to 10 cfs it has that nice flow and a greenish color with maybe a foot of visibility. Remember if you can see the fish they can see you too. It is a lot easier to fish good looking runs and pools where steelhead should lay up and rest than to be seeing them milling around and obviously spooked.

Look at the color of the water behind me. That is, in my opinion, an ideal color to catch Erie steelhead if they are present.

Each to his own though and I know many guys who just prefer to have a more pristine experience with less company.

 

[PennKev]

tomgamber wrote:
If you want to avoid crowds, walk. Even on the busiest days, if you want to get away from the crowds you can

I wish it was so. It just ain't that way anymore, not on Elk at least. The areas open to fishing have ample access and the areas that aren't, aren't.

For example. This past weekend, I started at Sterretania and fished (mostly walked) my way up to I-79. There were guys in literally every worthwhile spot until I got to Rick Rd. At that point it was early afternoon and a lot of guys were starting to leave.

In that stretch from Sterertania to I-79 there are 6 well known places to park and access the creek. How can you expect to walk away from anyone? Elsewhere is not quite as extreme, but you are still walking to the next access or walking towards a posted area and you run out of stream without ever leaving the crowd.

I suppose it boils down to what sort of crowd you can endure. Do you want the nearest guy 20yds away or can you tolerate 2 or 3 other guys in that 20 yd stretch on either side of you. If you can tolerate the close neighbors, that's great, but you gotta be satisfied to have just a little chunk of water to work with. Finding fish, active fish, is the name of the game regardless of the conditions and with the number of guys out on any given day, there will be have's and have-nots.

 

[wbranch]

Hi Pennkev,

This past weekend

That little phrase has very much to do with how many fellow anglers you are going to run into on Elk, or any steelhead, or for that matter any good trout stream in PA.

In the ten or so years I have fished Erie creeks I went up only one weekend because the water had been so low all season and I think it was my first trip up. It was a zoo. If I hadn't gotten to the Legion at first light and had some help crossing I might not of had any where to fish. The pool was loaded with fish and for the first two hours fish were being hooked very steadily.

By 9:00 there were guys milling all around, wading out too far and actually pushing the fish over to my side of the creek. Two Somali's were center pinning about 30 feet above me and the other guys next to me. They were letting their floats run 30' - 40' downstream. At first we all kind of let it happen but when they tangled us up a couple of time the guy next to me had enough of it and got his clipper out and cut the guys line from just below the float. Opps! sorry. After that it was just insane and I walked up stream. It was crowded everywhere and I pretty much had no water to fish for the rest of the day.

 

[PennKev]

wbranch wrote:
Hi Pennkev,

This past weekend

That little phrase has very much to do with how many fellow anglers you are going to run into on Elk, or any steelhead, or for that matter any good trout stream in PA.

I disagree, please re-read my previous posts. Weekend, weekday, holiday, world end. Doesn't matter anymore.

When it's steelhead "season" the Erie streams streams will be packed. Good conditions, bad conditions. Doesn't matter.

 

[JackM]

I'll admit I am not an Erie Stream Expert. But... There are a couple access areas that if you walk you CAN avoid crowds. And... but, there are areas also that have bad holding areas, where you have to bypass a lot of water. Sterretainia demands a long walk DOWN stream as does the next access down at (I can't think of the name of the road). Also, Elk Park Road offers nice accommodations and you can walk well downstream and upstream from there.

That's my Elk Creek story, because I have mostly fish there. Never above I-79 however.

 

[wbranch]

PennKev wrote;

I disagree, please re-read my previous posts. Weekend, weekday, holiday, world end. Doesn't matter anymore

Okay, I'm not going to debate this with you because what is too crowded for you, and others, might be fine with me. When I fished a certain NY steelhead stream in mid October there were only two other guys fishing it on a Sunday afternoon. Admittedly it was off color and raining but I still caught two fish.

There are streams in Ohio with very little angling pressure. There is nice water from Struechen Flats down to Folly's and beyond but you may need to walk a mile up during the day as you fish/walk looking for fish. I'm glad lots of guys are turning away from Steelhead Alley as it gives me more water to fish.

 

[PennKev]

wbranch wrote:
When I fished a certain NY steelhead stream in mid October there were only two other guys fishing it on a Sunday afternoon.

There are streams in Ohio with very little angling pressure.

There are far more opportunities to escape crowds in Ohio and NY. I will not disagree in regard to those states. At the end of Oct. I fished a rather well known OH creek at probably the easiest and best know access and had plenty of water to fish without being near other anglers. The fishing and conditions were good too.

 

[tomgamber]

PennKev wrote:

tomgamber wrote:
If you want to avoid crowds, walk. Even on the busiest days, if you want to get away from the crowds you can

I wish it was so. It just ain't that way anymore, not on Elk at least. The areas open to fishing have ample access and the areas that aren't, aren't.

For example. This past weekend, I started at Sterretania and fished (mostly walked) my way up to I-79. There were guys in literally every worthwhile spot until I got to Rick Rd. At that point it was early afternoon and a lot of guys were starting to leave.

In that stretch from Sterertania to I-79 there are 6 well known places to park and access the creek. How can you expect to walk away from anyone? Elsewhere is not quite as extreme, but you are still walking to the next access or walking towards a posted area and you run out of stream without ever leaving the crowd.

I suppose it boils down to what sort of crowd you can endure. Do you want the nearest guy 20yds away or can you tolerate 2 or 3 other guys in that 20 yd stretch on either side of you. If you can tolerate the close neighbors, that's great, but you gotta be satisfied to have just a little chunk of water to work with. Finding fish, active fish, is the name of the game regardless of the conditions and with the number of guys out on any given day, there will be have's and have-nots.

False

Others will tell you why. I won't waste my time.

 

[CRB]

Options are whats needed to be successful up here. I traveled to NY on Saturday and the Pa tribs were loaded with fisherman on to NY there were very few. Had t same thing happen the weekend before over to Ohio same things going on. extra money for an out of state license and it opens up a ton more water.

 

[PennKev]

tomgamber wrote:

False

Others will tell you why. I won't waste my time.

A true asset to the forum.

 

[PennKev]

CRB wrote:
Options are whats needed to be successful up here. I traveled to NY on Saturday and the Pa tribs were loaded with fisherman on to NY there were very few. Had t same thing happen the weekend before over to Ohio same things going on. extra money for an out of state license and it opens up a ton more water.

Yep, bought an Ohio license in for the first time in '08 and haven't looked back.

Frankly, with the down turn in fish numbers in PA, there's not much reason to choose the PA tribs over NY or Ohio. PA returns are still better from a sheer numerical standpoint, but when you factor in the far greater number and size of waters available in neighboring states, their fishing is often just as good due to less concentrated fishing pressure. You don't need to find an overlooked pod of fish to have a good day, you can fish entire stretches by yourself and pick up fish as you go.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

After my trips to Erie and New York it's sort of a no brainier: New York hands down. More open water, less people per mile and more fish with a greater variety. THe PaFF folks make Erie a fun trip, and worth it. GG