Single v. Double handed rods for steelhead

[dano]

kpitts32 wrote:
.......The trend in DH rods has gotten a little out of control. Very effective for snagging salmon in the side.

Stay away from DH if your fishing Erie/NY.

If you are snagging fish while swinging, then you are not swinging. You are dredging. Lighten up on your tip. The fish will come up for the fly if it wants it. I see the same thing as PKev, more fish snagged fishing split shot.
As for staying away from swinging NY, really? NY and Ohio have the best swinging water.

THe pic below was taken today on an Lk Erie trib in NY.
You wouldn't swing this?

 

[dano]

Actually, Early this week I foul hooked my first fish on the swing in many many years. I'm pretty sure it tried to eat the fly. But technically, it's foul hooked. Or is it? Anglers who peg beads would call it fair.

Taken near the stretch pictured above.

 

[mario66pens]

pcray wrote:
I was gonna say a hammer vs. a sledgehammer. Both can be used to do virtually all hammering jobs. But that doesn't mean they're both perfect tools for all hammering jobs. Depends on the job.

I found the post strange from someone with the handle of "brookieaddict".

I refuse to go to any brookie stream unless I have my 14 ft 9 wt spey rod.

 

[kpitts32]

Nice fish Dano... I assure you the fish are not in there feeding on purple skirt jig fish. Not sure if its matter of opinion but I will never be convinced that swinging flies is more effective than a perfectly drifted egg during a steelhead or brown trout spawn. Your going to foul hook fish when your getting down to them especially in the over populated creeks of Erie but your also going to catch more fish (with your fly down their throat).


9.5 times out of 10 the guy with solid drifts is going to catch more steelhead than a guy swinging a fly the size of a shoe in the Erie tribs.

I get a kick out of watching TV shows with guys swinging flies and not catching anything. I remember it so clearly in an episode of fly fishing TV with kelly Galloupe. They were all swinging flies and trying to teach him. No one was catching anything so he asks the guide, do you care if I try it my way? He put on an indicator and egg patterns and starts slaughtering fish right in front of him. We wear waders for a reason. If its to deep to wade, it probably holds fish. So fish it and quit casting over it.

 

[dano]

I disagree as it was not a very nice fish. Probably the smallest I've ever caught in that creek on the swing. I used to catch a bunch of those little guys back in my yarn ball and bobber days.

That fly was far from a purple skirt jig. actually, a 4" tube fly with mostly marabou and fox fur with beadchain eyes added so the fly doesn't ride hook point down. The moderate bit of flash pops in the pic. Fished off of 10ft of T-14 and 3- of 12lb Maxima. When your fishing 39F water that is 75 ft, wide and the pool is 4-5 ft. deep with 12" visibility, a slow moving fly with a bit of flash helps.
It was one of those days that even the pinners were struggling to hook up. I took 3. 2 of them 10lb+ and the little 22" guy.
For me, that was a successfull afternoon as I got the two I was looking for.

 

[dano]

Kpits, I never said swinging is more effective than drifting eggs. I said it was the least effective but most rewarding. Anyone who swings flies would agree. For hunting 10+ pound steelhead, I prefer to swing.
If a person is a quantity over quality guy, then stick to plunking bobbers, lead and yarn. In fact, a spinning rod would be the best tool for that type of fishing as you will achieve an even longer drag free drift. Peg a bead above your yarn or fish two chunks of yarn for more effectiveness. Don't forget about scents, Adding a couple drops of egg scent to the yarn increases hook ups.
BTW, when I go to Erie, I often notice many fish decorated in yarn flies.

 

[dano]

Big Bass,
A 10' 8" switch will nearly have the same amount of blank off the grip as a 10' single hander because the longer fore grip and rear grip on the switch figures in to the total length.
I think a switch in that length would cover you well for fishing steelhead in the Salmon River and not be overkill in Erie.
If you are going to primarily roll cast weight, then a two hander with a heavy line is much less taxing all day compared to a single, especially when the fish are holding from center river and out. The opposite is true for overhead casting as the added weight of the grips tends to make the cast feel awkward and the extended rear grip gets in the way of shooting line.
Go with a 2 handed switch for it's vrsatility and down the road, you can learn all those fancy two handed casts.

 

[Big-Bass]

Dano,

What weight? 6, 7, or 8? Any recommended rod models?

 

[pcray1231]

Not so sure about that when you consider levers and who has the short end of the stick. Now, a longer fighting butt would give you a little extra leverage.

You're right, leverage was the wrong term. You give the fish more mechanical advantage. i.e. you have to apply more force to the rod to apply the same force to the fish.

I still stand by, though, that it helps you fight the fish with a longer rod. Otherwise, NO rod would be the easiest way to fight a fish. For us, even on steelies on a long rod, applying more force is not a problem, we have more than enough force available. In fact, the only reason we don't apply more force than we do is so that the tippet doesn't break. It's not us vs. fish. It's our tippet vs. the fish, and we're trying to manage it so that the tippet wins.

We have a distance advantage, i.e. we have to apply that force over a smaller distance than the fish. Our goal is to provide a constant and steady pressure, through all the runs and headshakes that the fish throws at us. A longer rod helps with that. When he comes towards us by 3 ft, we can pull back the rod only a few inches and keep the same pressure. The larger bend in the rod also helps steady the pressure by absorbing the variations.

You do notice, with heavy saltwater gear meant for big tuna, billfish, and the like, you see shorter rods, with higher handle holds.

 

[dano]

Big-Bass wrote:
Dano,
What weight? 6, 7, or 8? Any recommended rod models?

Big-Bass,
A 7 or 8 but here is where it gets confusing.
Company A rates their rods casting the way we are used to seeing. A 7 or 8 weight rod over head casts a 7 or 8wt line.
Company B who specialize in spey and switch rods will rate their rods for underhand casting. So that same 7wt rod mentioned above may be their version of a 4 or 5wt. Same rod, different rating. From them, you want to look at grain window and a rod that is rated for 375 to 425.

Do you have a price range and or a rod company you prefer?
On the cheap, there is St Croix Imperial.
Tfo Deer Creek rods
Echo
Redington cpx at Sierra trading post( I believe Redington rods are now designed by Sage rod guys.)
High end = sage, winston, orvis helios.
If you like to put together your own, Rainshadow RX7.

You could go out and call poppy at red shed and see what he recommends for Great Lakes steel (their version of summer run steel) and what he has in stock. He's got a knack for matching the right guy with the right rod. He may even throw in a free line.

 

[kpitts32]

Dano,

I fished upper elk today in chocolate brown dropping water and caught about 25 fish on super small egg patterns. Caught some of the biggest fish of the year for myself as well. Quality and quantity are produced when your not dragging your indicator all over the water/casting miles and you are presenting the patterns to the fish correctly.

 

[Big-Bass]

kpitts32

What rod do you prefer as it seems that you have quite a bit of success. Thanks!

 

[dano]

Glad you got into a few, Kpitt. I heard Elk fished well today. A few of my friends fished a little ways up from behind my brothers house on mid-elk and said they couldn't keep em off. Some fresh chrome but also quite a few tired,lethargic fish and a few dropbacks. They dredged the same pool and run all day. (rods used were 9 1/2' to 10' 6&7 wts.)My other friend guided a pair of out-of towners high up on Elk using light gear (stiff 9ft-5wts) and did well.

 

[kpitts32]

Big-Bass... Ive been using a 9ft 7wt Shadow Warrior this year. I used to use a 10ft 7wt rod but I sold it. The extra foot does not give me that much of an advantage with my drifts.. I tend to get really sore shoulders after about 5 hours of continuous nymphing so the lightness of the shadow rod has been nice. I do really like 10ft rods but an extra ft on a rod that is already 9ft long does not do much for me. Ill just take one step forward if its that big of a deal.

Dano. It fished very well. The water was terrible and I almost left. Luckily I gave it some more time lower at some of the holes I usually fish and ended up crushing them. All fish were chrome with a lot of pink in them. I still have yet to see a completely chrome fish on upper elk. It amazes me how much it changes every year. Holes I fished last year are completely gone and the shale plates have shifted so much in one year.

 

[Big-Bass]

I had the opportunity to demo the Shadow rods...both 5 weights, not the 7, but they are awesome! I may pick up a Stalker in a 5 just because I liked it so much. The 7 would be nice to try too as I heard it feels like a 5 weight.

 

[kpitts32]

Big-Bass. I decided to pick it up because I have always been looking to get a 7wt that light without having to drop an entire paycheck on one. Ive casted the helios rod at a local fly shop and I actually preferred the Shadow rod over it. It does feel like a 5wt, there's nothing in your hands when paired with the right reel.

 

[MrMustard]

I've been using the Shadow Warrior 7wt in Erie this year as well. I also really like it. It really is incredibly light and feels great in hand. I have also been using it to toss some bigger streamers on the Yough and have no complaints.

 

[Big-Bass]

What reel do you have on the Shadow? I have an Allen Alpha 7/8...would that be too heavy balance-wise?

 

[kpitts32]

No, It would be fine. I have a 5wt reel Ive used with it and its not heavy enough. I have a big 8wt reel I use with it and it feels much better. Its a blast there is nothing in your hand at all and its incredibly strong. Great value especially with the extra tip/warranty. Wish they had them in more sizes but what can you expect from a new company, hopefully in time.

Was going to go up again today but did not get a chance.

 

[Blake]

Switch rod all the way! I fish mine everywhere a 9' rod will go. I hear this argument all the time. Best thing I can say is go try one out and make your own decision. When quality vs quantity fish is brought up like dano said, quality is not the fish size, it's the expierence of swinging. Not watching a bobber stop and setting the hook. Different strokes for different folks tho.