Should Thes Folks Open Their Lands To The Public??

[littlejuniata]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/interactives/farmaid/

 

[RLeeP]

>Should Thes Folks Open Their Lands To The Public??>

Probably not, at least not as a mandated condition of accepting gov't aid.

Tempting as it may seem, you have to consider the massive bag of snakes it could potentially open where virtually all gov't assistance could be made contingent on participation in some direct and personal egalitarian or "good of the commons" purpose.

We might as well all start wearing matching spandex suit...

 

[ryanh]

Although I am not too crazy for subsudized farming this does not make it public land. Because you get a child tax credit does that mean that I can fish in your yard??

 

[Wulff-Man]

I'd prefer that our government just stop throwing away billions of dollars of our hard earned money for no good reason. Yeah, that'll happen.

(In case anyone's wondering, this isn't a rail against the principle of farm susidies, just against bad farm subsidies. And every other waste of billions of our tax dollars, actually.)

 

[littlejuniata]

How about these guys?? http://www.heritage.org/Research/Agriculture/bg2045.cfm

 

[troutbert]

95 billion here, 95 billion there, pretty soon it adds up to real money.

 

[ryanh]

Little J.,
I agree that corruption abounds. It is all over the place but I will never EVER be for finding some loop hole that gives the public any claim to private property.

Pull the subsudies, let them be forced to sell to cover their losses and watch some developer buy it and place 500 dwellings on it. Maybe the farm subsudies are the only thing that keeps urban sprawl at bay.....ever think about that?

 

[FarmerDave]

LJ, we have been thruogh this discussion several times in the past. All I can say is Ted Kennedy gets a lot of government money (as do many others), and I doubt he would appreciate me surf casting in his backyard.

And we all know that Jimmy Carter and his family had been benefiting from the peanut quotas for decades.

then there is the Gore family and tobacco.

it aint gonna change.

 

[littlejuniata]

I really do think that the www will have an impact on these policies, ask some of the incumbents who got kicked out. I think the www helped to get the trout guy we wanted on the fish commission also.

 

[ryanh]

Little J,
As much as I would like to believe you there is a WORLD of difference between getting Lichvar (a polotical nobody) in a fish spot (a position of realistically no power) and stemming the flow of tax money that goes into the coffers of "agrarian" senators and congressmen.

They will never vote against their own bank accounts. That would be like me requesting you not to breath....you just can't help it. :lol:

 

[JackM]

What's wrong FarmerDave, don't the blogs you read feed you any Republican names to throw around on Farm Subsidy discussions? Look up Charles Shwab's political giving patterns and what Secretary of State recently served on his company's board of directors and then have a gander at his personal farm subsidies. The fact is, where the subsidies do help the occasional family farmer, they are another form of corporate welfare where the tax dollars of middle-class working Americans are re-distributed to the wealthy-- sort of a reverse Robin Hood scenario.

 

[littlejuniata]

Lets not forget that the www dumped Jubelier, that was considered to be impossible too. Hopefully it will be the begining of taking at least some of the money influence out of politics.

 

[littlejuniata]

It apppears that the www and chat sites influenced Nike, Reebock and the NFL in the Vick debacle.

 

[sdwlucas]

Lil J,

I will have to disagree with your last post. I do not believe the www had a very big impact on Vick's endorsements. Just my $.02

 

[tomgamber]

JackM wrote:
What's wrong FarmerDave, don't the blogs you read feed you any Republican names to throw around on Farm Subsidy discussions? Look up Charles Shwab's political giving patterns and what Secretary of State recently served on his company's board of directors and then have a gander at his personal farm subsidies. The fact is, where the subsidies do help the occasional family farmer, they are another form of corporate welfare where the tax dollars of middle-class working Americans are re-distributed to the wealthy-- sort of a reverse Robin Hood scenario.

Don't forget all those republican loving cattle ranchers who set their animals out to graze on PUBLIC land for pennies a head. You wanna see a republican senators face turn red? Tell them they should raise grazing fees on BLM, Wilderness or other federally owned lands. If I had the money I could run 800 head of cattle or 2000 head of sheep on land owned by you and I and the public trust, but you can't ride a bike or dive any other mechanized vehicle within those boundries....HMMMM

 

[FarmerDave]

That's pretty funny Jack.To answer your question, I feel fine, but apparently you have a problem with me. Did I say all the subsidies should go away? Did I say they didn’t benefit any small farmers? I don’t think so. Do you honestly think I had to surf the blogs for any of that. Unlike you, I’m not into surfing political blogs. Some of you can be so defensive of your parties.

Just a couple of other points.

1. I did say "as do many others." I did not say "as do many other Democrats”. I just threw up a couple examples off the top of my head that happened to be Democrats (partially to rile you up and you didn't let me down). I chose Kennedy because we know of his history when it comes to “Not In My Backyard” (the windmills off the cape) and also because he claims to be such a champion of the common man.:roll: I added Jimmy Carter for a couple reasons. First of all, because he is a fly angler, and I also view him as the most honest presidents in recent history. I have a lot of respect for him. However, even he benefits from farm programs. Second of all, the peanut quotas are one of the most abused farm programs there is. That’s kinda old info, but I doubt it changed. And I added Al Gore a little later because he is one of the biggest hypocrites in recent history, but i know he still has a loyal fan base.

2. We both know these abuses cross party lines. I didn’t think I had to point that out.

Like most entitlement programs, the farm subsidies were mostly created with good intentions, but they also get abused like most entitlement programs. Then once they are created, it is difficult to get rid of the out of date ones for many reasons (which I don not feel a need to get into).

Please notice that I didn’t ask you to prove that some small farmers benefit from subsidies.

The majority of people who own the peanut quotas don’t even farm. They live in places like NJ and NYC and lease the quotas to farmers. They are middlemen skimming from the system. At least the Carters still farmed. Those that do not have quotas have to sell their peanuts overseas for about one tenth the price.

Tom, the ranchers are an excellent example. I wish I had added that, too. But then, if I had, I wouldn't have gotten such a rise out of you two. :lol: Before someone else jumps on this, I realize not all ranchers are Republicans, but those are the traditionally republican states.

 

[JackM]

Conscious decision or not, I found it interesting that you chose as examples three prominent and recognizable Democrats.

PS, the blog comment was calculated to get a rise out of you and you didn't disappoint either.

 

[cimarronred]

Politicians are not born; they are excreted. -- Cicero

 

[JackM]

"A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation. This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion."

-- Samuel Johnson

 

[FarmerDave]

"Have a beer"

Un-named descendant of Samuel Adams.