Sewer Main Rupture in Valley Forge Park

[mikesl]

Heard this on the news....

http://mainlinemedianews.com/articles/2014/02/07/main_line_suburban_life/news/doc52f4061bb86af937284898.txt


Apparently there is a rupture in a sewer main in valley forge park, along valley creek near intersections of 23 and 252.

Anyone been out to see how bad it is?

Hate to say it, but coulda been worse if it were further upstream....

 

[mooney4]

Hi Mike, unfortunately I was in my work truck today and they wouldn't let me get that close to the area. Hopefully someone will report on it over the weekend.

 

[salmonoid]

Oh, crap!

Joking aside, agricultural manure spills certainly result in fish kills, so I wonder what effect this will have.

 

[midgeman]

Alot of crap floating down river...

 

[Chaz]

The question in the first place is; why dose DEP allow sewer lines to be run through and along creeks in the first place. Shame on DEP.

 

[AndyP]

There is a video on the VFTU Facebook page. It is bad. My understanding is the break or malfunction is at rt.23 and rt.252, HOWEVER, a decision was made to let the sewage overflow from a manhole farther UPSTREAM above the Turnpike bridge. So instead of a couple of hundred yards of stream being impacted we now have what...a mile or a mile and a half being impacted. This will be the 3rd major sewer leak in 2 years I believe. This stream takes some heavy body blows. Really bums me out. I do not understand how the decision could be made to let it overflow from farther upstream.

 

[turkey]

Chaz wrote:
The question in the first place is; why dose DEP allow sewer lines to be run through and along creeks in the first place. Shame on DEP.

I'd imagine that most sewer lines were put into service well before the general public became aware of conservation. The mantra I've heard time and again is "dilution is the solution to pollution". This was, and in some cases, still is the mindset. To this day, when the open sewer systems in cities overflow due to something as common as a heavy downpour, they spill into our rivers and streams...by design. The DEP allows it because it would cost more than the national debt (figuratively) to update the infrastructure.

 

[lv2nymph]

So it's death by design (for the fish) Bummer...
So all that can be done is hope it's not too bad.

 

[Stagger_Lee]

AndyP wrote:

This will be the 3rd major sewer leak in 2 years I believe.

How did the other 2 impact the stream?

 

[troutbert]

Sewer lines are very commonly run parallel to streams, buried in the floodplains.

The reason this is done is because it is the simplest, least expensive way to do it.

The stream network drains the land through which it flows. To build a system of pipes that drains by gravity, rather than using pumps, the simplest way to do that is to build it parallel to, and following the same gradient as, the existing stream network.

It is very bad for streams, not just when the sewage leaks. Because putting sewage lines in the floodplain parallel to the stream also requires "locking in" the stream into a fixed path, so that the stream does not cut laterally and expose the sewer line.

It is normal for streams to move back and forth laterally across their floodplains over time. Locking streams in, stabilizing them laterally, has many negative consequences. But if you have a sewer line running buried in the floodplain, parallel to the stream, there really is no other choice but to "lock in" the stream.

But, think about designing a sewage system that does not have pipes buried in the floodplains of the streams. How would you do it?

We've got some engineers on the board. I'm sure they'll solve the design problem.

 

[pete41]

Imagine the alternative-putting sewer lines through the subs-would have to go in relatively straight lines.

 

[mikesl]

I'm not a sewer engineer but i suspect that to repair the issue they have to shut off the flow, and I can imagine the only practical way to do that is to divert the flow at some upstream junction. Still stinks.

 

[blueheron]

I'm not sure members of a fly fishing board can solve real life issues as complex as urban sewage removal when they can't even fix leaky waders, engineer or not.

 

[salmonoid]

blueheron wrote:
I'm not sure members of a fly fishing board can solve real life issues as complex as urban sewage removal when they can't even fix leaky waders, engineer or not.

On the Internet, it's pretty easy to be an armchair sewage engineer..

(Or insert expert anything into that sentence..)

It's easy to oversimplify solutions to complex problems. It's easy to rail from an idealistic soapbox about the wrongs of the world (but every living human creates sewage and is a potential contributor to this rupture).

 

[giantsjim]

23 was closed yesterday at the main entrance to the park and all traffic was being diverted either into park itself or onto rte 422. Stuck in that traffic on Gulph Road during 'crush' hour home. Didn't know til now it was a sewer break.
Was fishing Valley upstream of the iron bridge when the last break happened. All of a sudden half the stream was mud colored and moving quickly downstream. Reminded me of the 10 Commandments movie. Let the office know.
I really hope this not a long term issue. Stream has many special qualities about it.

 

[AndyP]

BlueHeron, I'm not railing from a soapbox just asking questions. I have been a construction manager for 27 years and on 2 occasions excavation crews working for me broke a sewage force main,that is a main under pressure from a pump station. Both times we had multiple pump trucks on site to contain the spill to the location where the line was broken and pumped out of the upstream manhole to circumvent the flow so we could make the repair. We did not just let let it flow into a creek, which btw there was right next to the work area. The one incident required pump trucks working for 36 hours straight to keep up. I think it is time to discuss the protocol for these type incidents in the Valley Creek watershed with the Sewer Authority, or Authorities to see if some changes can be made to keep the impact to a minimum.
Stagger - There was some mortality with both of the earlier sewage spills/leaks. We also had a PECO substation fire sprinkler line burst and dumped highly chlorinated water into Valley about 3-4 years ago. VFTU met with PECO and they agreed to install flow alarms on their substation fire sprinkler lines to alert them if there was a leak. This was a positive and responsible reaction from PECO. I hope we can have the same results with the Sewer Authority.

 

[blueheron]

Andy, I was actually responding to troutbert's hypothetical question about sewer lines and floodplains. I suspect the problem at Valley is more complicated than a broken main, I really don't have any details but prior events around that poor stream seem to indicate that it's specialness is it's downfall. It's too close to too many people.

 

[vealboy]

Fished Valley today from below the Wilson Rd bridge to beyond the Tpk bridge.Didn't see any dead fish although there was some nasty looking stuff on the bottom and I smelled sewage a few times.I talked to two other fishermen and they hadn't heard of the spill.I caught 6 and had 3 more come off,they looked healthy and in good shape.Looks like Valley may have taken it without too much harm.

 

[mikesl]

Great to hear, thanks for the good news.

nice looking fish too

 

[marcq]

valley is a tough little stream. I think the fish and stream will be fine.