Sewer Main Rupture in Valley Forge Park

[blueheron]

People think I'm hardcore but I would have passed on the raw sewage water. As a plumber once told me, don't bite your fingernails.

 

[AndyP]

Thanks for the pics and update Veal. Nice fish too!

 

[lestrout]

Veal - the last sewer break in the OP was well downstream of you, so I don't understand the smell of sewage. Maybe it was a deer kill, such as from the Tpke, in the woods nearby?

What are the 2nd and 3rd pic of? I enjoy looking at your pics in my nice warm cozy home here (or at least until the power goes off).

 

[troutbert]

What is the location of photo 4?

It looks like the habitat is poor, i.e. lacking in pools and cover.

 

[afishinado]

AndyP wrote:
There is a video on the VFTU Facebook page. It is bad. My understanding is the break or malfunction is at rt.23 and rt.252, HOWEVER, a decision was made to let the sewage overflow from a manhole farther UPSTREAM above the Turnpike bridge. So instead of a couple of hundred yards of stream being impacted we now have what...a mile or a mile and a half being impacted. This will be the 3rd major sewer leak in 2 years I believe. This stream takes some heavy body blows. Really bums me out. I do not understand how the decision could be made to let it overflow from farther upstream.

Les,

Read Andy P's explanation (above) of why the upper section of the Park is effected.

 

[FarmerDave]

Chaz wrote:

The question in the first place is; why dose DEP allow sewer lines to be run through and along creeks in the first place. Shame on DEP.

troutbert wrote:

We've got some engineers on the board. I'm sure they'll solve the design problem.

Doesn't take an engineer to figure out water flows best downhill.

The original sewer main was the creek.

 

[FarmerDave]

blueheron wrote:
Andy, I was actually responding to troutbert's hypothetical question about sewer lines and floodplains. I suspect the problem at Valley is more complicated than a broken main, I really don't have any details but prior events around that poor stream seem to indicate that it's specialness is it's downfall. It's too close to too many people.

Troutbert's message was likely in response to Chaz's question.

The question in the first place is; why dose DEP allow sewer lines to be run through and along creeks in the first place. Shame on DEP.

As was mine.

 

[afishinado]

I don't know a thing about sewage engineering, but I do have some common sense. Water (and poop) run downhill. If you continue to pitch the sewer pipes downhill, eventually you will land at the lowest point. The lowest point is a streambed. Keep following that lowest point (the streambed) and it will lead to a larger streambed or a river. Sewage plants are located on larger streams or rivers. They treat the sewage and discharge into the river or stream.

I'm not really sure how anything would ever change unless you built pumping stations push the water uphill in some areas to avoid the streambeds.

 

[troutbert]

FarmerDave wrote:

blueheron wrote:
Andy, I was actually responding to troutbert's hypothetical question about sewer lines and floodplains. I suspect the problem at Valley is more complicated than a broken main, I really don't have any details but prior events around that poor stream seem to indicate that it's specialness is it's downfall. It's too close to too many people.

Troutbert's message was likely in response to Chaz's question.

The question in the first place is; why dose DEP allow sewer lines to be run through and along creeks in the first place. Shame on DEP.

That's right. And also to these replies to his question.

"I'd imagine that most sewer lines were put into service well before the general public became aware of conservation."

"So it's death by design"

 

[turkey]

afishinado wrote:

I'm not really sure how anything would ever change unless you built pumping stations push the water uphill in some areas to avoid the streambeds.

There are in fact pumping or "lift" stations associated with sewage collection systems but I'm not sure how prolific they are. These are assumptions but I'd imagine they are mostly used in hilly areas. They need to be monitored closely for failures and maintained so gravity is probably much preferred by systems.

 

[Alnitak]

It's a "good" thing this happened in the winter. The real issue with a sewage leak like this is the nutrient load. The fish kills are generally the result of a depleted oxygen; the nutrients cause rapid algae blooms that lower the oxygen levels in the water and choke out the fish (and other life). I'm simplifying this a bit, but that's the general situation. With cold weather and higher stream flow levels, the nutrients are going to be washed out more quickly and the algae are not able able to grow as well in the cold.

Hopefully the bulk of the sewage flushes out rather than settles to the bottom, because if it does settle it will cause problems later in the year as things warm up.

Jeff

 

[turkey]

I know that this isn't what happened at Valley Forge but just for a visual reference, this is what a sewage overflow looks like in action. I was fishing for bass on the Allegheny near Pittsburgh and a summer storm blew up. The downpour only last 15-20 minutes and then it was sunny again. Then all of the sudden this thing (sorry if I posted this here before) came to life behind me. You can imagine the smell.

Here is some information from ALCOSAN on combined sewer overflows or CSO's.

 

[vealboy]

Pics 2&3 are what I believe to be dissolved toilet paper on the bank and in the water.Pic 4 is looking downstream from the Wilson Rd bridge.As far as fishing after the spill,I had to see for myself what damage was done.

 

[Mike]

The long term problems can be nutrient loading downstream in the receiving stream/river, but the immediate problem with raw sewage discharges and toxicity to fish are not nutrients. They are ammonia in potentially toxic concentrations and aerobic bacteria that are using oxygen from the stream water to break down the organic materials in the sewage.

 

[Alnitak]

Mike, that's what I was trying to say...not very successfully I guess. Anyway, I hope the stream is flushed out quickly this spring.

Jeff

 

[Mike]

Jeff,
No problem. I have a lot of experience with raw sewage and trying to explain it's effects .

Mike