Saw Creek Kriss Pines Situation

[PennypackFlyer]

1. Come on guys...We have enough polutants running in our watersheds already...why add to it?
2. Does the water flow over the top of the dam or from the bottom side? If it flows from the bottom the water will be cold year around.
3. We can blame the president's of past for invasive species...even Brown Trout. We should not choose between more desirable and least. Invasive species is invasive species and they all change the watershed environment.
4. That's why I suggested it being turned into a museum.
5. That is like recycling our toilet water for drinking purposes. If it is not prestine- would you drink it?

 

[SBecker]

Penny,

What are you talking about, when your speaking about the type of dam?

 

[jdaddy]

I think chazs idea is brilliant. Harvest the browns to a level where brook Trout biomass will not support HV requirements and turn the place into a dump.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Some dams have discharge (open the flood gates) over the top and others have discharge from the bottom of the dam. Since water is cooler well below the surface, water flowing out will remain cold year around.

 

[Chaz]

Jdaddy, you have some explaining to do on your comments.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Flyer - The dam at Beltzville Lake has a tower that enables releases by mixing water from different levels. This article should explain things nicely.

There's another dam on the Po, down in Parryville. This is a spillover dam, and is made mostly of wood. It kinda looks like half of a barn roof. This lower dam creates a deep section of water behind the dam, and that is where Palmerton draws their drinking water from. This dam also effectively blocks fish from migrating further up the Po.

Fish that migrate up from the Lehigh can't make it past this obstacle, though they do try!

 

[osprey]

I read this whole thing and find it surprising that no one mentioned Big Spring Creek and what when on over there in Newville in Cumberland county , in the end a State hatchery was closed.

 

[JackM]

osprey wrote:
I read this whole thing and find it surprising that no one mentioned Big Spring Creek and what when on over there in Newville in Cumberland county , in the end a State hatchery was closed.

It is very tempting to skip over Chaz posts, but he mentioned it:

Chaz mentioned Big Spring at Post #35

 

[Chaz]

Osprey, actually I did in post #35 because someone made a comment about the effluent.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Big Spring is also mentioned in post # 24....

 

[k-bob]

Someone may have mentioned this, also, but I believe there is a stretch of sawmill run on public land above the pohopoheyholetsgo... Fished it and met wild browns not brookies. Maybe someplace up in its colder more acidic headwaters there are brookies.

 

[SBecker]

PennypackFlyer wrote:
Some dams have discharge (open the flood gates) over the top and others have discharge from the bottom of the dam. Since water is cooler well below the surface, water flowing out will remain cold year around.

Uhhhm I understand how dams work. I just don't understand what dam you are talking about or how it is relevant to your argument. Like Ed said, there is the barn door dam on the Po near the Lehigh, there is Beltzville dam, and then there is a small lowhead dam on Sawmill.

Also Ed, I am pretty sure the Parryvulle dam does not provide drinking water to the amazing citizens of Palmerton. Palmerton sells the water to Horsehead. I obviously could be wrong though.

Edit: The water supply is used for Horseheads, but is a back up drinking water provided for Palmerton, if for some reason there first source fails.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

In sentence two it mentions about the water being heated up because of the dam. Since I am unfamiliar with the structure - but have some knowledge that a well built and deep dam that drains from below can sustain cold water fish throught the year.
The real truth in this matter is - How many private owned/ran fisheries are there in PA? Politics will always be involved if the state has stakes in the outcome. Or wants to control an outcome. If they feel that they may lose money they will red tape things to death.

 

[vealboy]

I've been fishing Sawmill long before the hatchery closed and have noticed a big improvement in water quality since it closed.The first pic below shows a brookie in Sawmill just below Pohopoco Dr.It was taken when the hatchery was still open,notice all the crud on the rocks,most likely from effluent.This stream still is in recovery,and no matter how up to date your treatment system is,it only takes one malfunction to wipe all progress out.The second pic below is a decent brookie caught in the same area in Sep 2011.I've also been catching wild bows the past few years,in all year classes.As far as stocking over wild brookies and stocking all together,which I have problem with.Quite a few years ago I was fishing White Deer Cr in the section below the FFO area,I walked downstream a good distance and started fishing back up.When I got back up close to the bridge I noticed a pair of wild brookies in the back end of a pool over a redd.As I stood there and watched them three stockers came in and chased the brookies away,this happened over and over as I watched.The FFO area had been fall stocked recently and I guess that's where they came from.Browns and Bows are not native to PA and shouldn't stocked in our waters. § 2508. Restrictions on transport, sale, importation or release
of nonnative injurious fish.
(a) General rule.--No person shall transport, sell, offer
for sale or release in this Commonwealth or import, bring or
cause to be brought or imported into this Commonwealth a
nonnative injurious fish.
(b) Regulations.--The commission shall promulgate
regulations pertaining to nonnative injurious fish.
(c) Penalty.--Any person who violates this section commits a
misdemeanor of the third degree.
(July 7, 2006, P.L.355, No.75, eff. 60 days)

2006 Amendment. Act 75 added section 2508. In my opinion stocking is illegal no matter who does it,non native trout displace native trout,compete for the same food,are more aggressive,and cause change to a watershed.There are many streams out there the PFBC stocks over wild brookies,Cold Run,Schuylkill Co is one that comes to mind.There are plenty of wild brooks and browns here but the PFBC still has to dump their hatchery garbage in there.What we need is less stocking and better regs on wild trout streams,such as higher min size and lower creel limit.When I suggested this to the PFBC their response was this would create no kill fisheries on many streams,as if that's a bad thing and wouldn't consider it.I don't get it.

 

[SBecker]

No one stocks Saw, Veal. I would also wager a very large amount that they are not wild rainbows. The State stocks a very large amount of fingerling bows in the Po. That is what you are catching.

 

[Chaz]

Nice fish John.

 

[vealboy]

I know they don't stock Sawmill,I have seen stockers in Sawmill that came from the Po.My problem is these browns and bows hold down the wild brooks.I caught bows above the upper dam in the park and I don't think fingerlings can get over the dam.

 

[SBecker]

I guess what I am trying to get at is, why write a large post about stocking over wild trout. When this thread is about Saw Mill and no one stocks Saw Mill. If you are complaining about stocking the Po, I agree, but not what this thread is about. If you are complaining about hatcheries in general stocking fish well, good luck with that.

 

[TYoung]

Doesn't the state clip the adipose fins on fingerlings that they stock? Those fish in the last two photos look like they have their adipose fins.

 

[SBecker]

I don't believe they do. Only when they are trying to do a study and get feedback from anglers.