Rough weather leads to decrease in Pa. fishing license sales down ~10%

I come from south of Scranton in the Springbrook area (North Poconos) where I was born. Coal heat, coal stoves, outhouses. TV was later on. Simple times. Big gardens and fruit trees. Canned everything. Chickens, Milk cows. Beef cattle (the best cuts were sold). When buying dry goods you told the store owner to "put in on the book" and settled on payday. We were poor but didnt know it. I thought everybody lived this way. My parents found a way to get a education which went a long way to a more convenient life.
 
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I come from south of Scranton in the Springbrook area (North Poconos) where I was born. Coal heat, coal stoves, outhouses. TV was later on. Simple times. Big gardens and fruit trees. Chickens, Milk cows. Beef cattle (the best cuts were sold). When buying dry goods you told the store owner to "put in on the book" and settled on payday. We were poor but didnt know it. I thought everybody lived this way. My parents found a way to get a education which went a long way to a more convenient life.
Dear falcon,

I guess I'm a little like you. I grew up in Saint Clair PA living in a house with a stoker stove in the basement until I was 5 years old. My maternal grandfather who was a coal miner died when I like 8 years old. I don't think he was 50 years old when he passed, but he looked like he was 90. My mom has always told stories of buying things on "tick". It was the way back then.

My parents moved to the splendor of Lower Bucks County in 1965 after a brief stop in Somerton PA by the SEPTA tracks. They lived in an apartment until 2004 when my father retired and they finally bought a house of their own. They managed to raise three sons that have all flown the coop, except for yours truly. My parents actually bought a house to be closer to me in the Harrisburg suburbs! ;)

I guess the moral of the story is that if you want something else you have to find it. Staying put and wishing for the best is totally a non-starter anymore. I grew up when the saying, "Wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which one fills up first" was common knowledge.

On the point of fishing license sales, I've bought multi-year licenses since they became available so I sure hope they count them as sales. I'll buy a lifetime license in December of this year, I hope I get at least a year out of it! ;)

Regards,

Tim Murphy :)
 
Yo Tim - Lifetime fishing licenses are buyable on New Year's Day of the year when you become old enough. You don't have to wait till your birthday to buy the Lifetime license.
 
Yo Tim - Lifetime fishing licenses are buyable on New Year's Day of the year when you become old enough. You don't have to wait till your birthday to buy the Lifetime license.
Yo Les,

Since you can buy the next years license on December 1st of each year I'm dropping the dough early and getting a lifetime license early! ;)

That way, the Fish Commission gets a free credit for the last month of my expiring 3 year license and I'll be home free.

Regards,

Tim Murphy :)
 
The trends are troublesome but I do think it can turn around, the state wide fishing agencies just need to ensure stream access for the next generation to fish.

I haven't seen a ton of kids fishing in PA, but when I was living in Michigan, all of my life until a few years ago,every weekend the rivers and lakes were filled with kids.

They lean to be a bit more bass fisherman who follow the Googan squad on YouTube, but there are a number of trout youtubers that have a large following of kids.

It will take time, but with more and more streamers and influencers fishing it will help with exposure of the sport.
 
How many people have figured out that fishing without a license is pretty low risk. I regularly fish in 3 states and my check rate is 5% in PA and 0% in NY & OH. None of the states require the license to be displayed.
I would agree. I think people are still fishing, but with the "displaying your license" requirement removed, it makes rolling the dice of fishing without a license that much easier. To me, it only seems logical that the requirement of having to display your license offers some degree of incentive to fish legally.
 
I feel like more and more stream accesses are getting posted in my area anymore! I remember when I was a kid Four Mile run was all open to fish! Now there are purple markings everywhere! I wonder if post covid and less and less access is driving people away?
Could less stream access also be from trash being left behind, people destroying things on landowners property, camping, fires on private property, etc?
 
Could less stream access also be from trash being left behind, people destroying things on landowners property, camping, fires on private property, etc?
Yeah unfortunately some people have no respect for others property and ruin it for everyone! I’m always picking up trash along the stream and it’s sad that ppl think it’s okay to litter!
 
Could less stream access also be from trash being left behind, people destroying things on landowners property, camping, fires on private property, etc?
Must be all those tattooed, big screen tv owning, cigarette smoking cell phone users and their ADHD lazy kids that don't have fishing licenses.
 
Yeah unfortunately some people have no respect for others property and ruin it for everyone! I’m always picking up trash along the stream and it’s sad that ppl think it’s okay to litter!
I think most anglers are pretty good about trash and keeping things clean. I'm gonna cast shade on some bait fishermen. You are more likely to see some bait containers and cans together at a spot than any indication a fly fisherman has been hanging in a spot.

Really most of the problems are not anglers, but people (young folks) having parties in out of the way spots by streams at night. Anglers get the blame because they can be seen during the day in those areas. So sneaky young kids with beer and music having parties in out of the way spots. Glad I never did that.
 
Really most of the problems are not anglers, but people (young folks) having parties in out of the way spots by streams at night. Anglers get the blame because they can be seen during the day in those areas. So sneaky young kids with beer and music having parties in out of the way spots. Glad I never did that.
Well, I was guilty in high school and college of such behavior, but I never littered....EVER. I have always hated litter.

I was fishing a stream one day when I saw some teenagers pull off and scramble up the hill under an overpass with a plastic shopping bag. They came back down without it, got in their car, and left. I went and retrieved the bag before leaving for the day. It was all empty beer cans and bottles. I took it and disposed of it for them.

They should have just stuck this stuff in a public trash can at a Sheetz or something, but instead they hid it along the creek.

I agree with bait fishermen, though. I am so sick of finding styrofoam worm containers, Eagle Claw snelled hook packages, and Libby's Corn cans and crap like that. Don't be a slob!
 
Could less stream access also be from trash being left behind, people destroying things on landowners property, camping, fires on private property, etc?
There is far less trash being thrown out now than in the past. Along the streams and even along the roads, there is much less trash than there was back in the 1960s and 1970s.

The main reason for more posting is rural land changing to exurbia and suburbia. Larger properties subdivided into smaller properties.

And a change in ownership from the old farm families to people without rural traditions.
 
Couldn't agree with Tbert more on ruraal traditions being lost. Spent many times partying along streams and it was a long tradition - I think everybody's parents did it at one time. We always kept the places cleaned up because we knew the property owners and wanted to make sure we never lost a place to go. We knew our neighbors and would never leave gates open, shoot at milking time or anything else more in respect of neighbors than fearing of losing access. When people started moving out they would say they were moving out for the rural lifestyle which to them meant posting the land and keeping everybody out, when I thought it meant knowing everyone and getting along. Some people even closed off paths on their property kids took to school/bus stop, something no local would do. Newcomers didn't respect local traditions. One real sore spot was dogs. Newcomers commonly left dogs run free when they were at work and the dogs often got in trouble chasing milk cows. When a farmer would complain dog owners would always say their dog wouldn't do that and blamed the farmer. If a farmer said to another farmer that their dog was chasing cows it risked a 22 to the back of the skull with no recriminations.
 
Must be all those tattooed, big screen tv owning, cigarette smoking cell phone users and their ADHD lazy kids that don't have fishing licenses.
I think littering along streams, lakes, and rivers by anglers is independent of fishing license possession. If not completely independent, there are still licensed anglers who litter. Additionally, some of the worst littering by anglers that I have seen in the past has been by river shore anglers fishing lures for a particular species that doesn’t take bait.

As for stocked trout streams, at least the ones that I fish, the littering situation isn’t perfect by any means, but seems to have generally improved over the years, although people still leave a lot of line laying around as well as Styrofoam bait containers, especially the lids.
 
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I think littering along streams, lakes, and rivers by anglers is independent of fishing license possession. If not completely independent, there are still licensed anglers who litter. Additionally, some of the worst littering by anglers that I have seen in the past has been by river shore anglers fishing lures for a particular species that doesn’t take bait.

As for stocked trout streams, at least the ones that I fish, the littering situation isn’t perfect by any means, but seems to have generally improved over the years, although people still leave a lot of line laying around as well as Styrofoam bait containers, especially the lids.
Mike, I always appreciate your valuable and experienced input. Glad to hear that you feel the litter situation seems to be improving even if its minor improvements.

I do, however, want to clarify that my comment was meant to be taken as tongue in cheek.
 
I think most anglers are pretty good about trash and keeping things clean. I'm gonna cast shade on some bait fishermen. You are more likely to see some bait containers and cans together at a spot than any indication a fly fisherman has been hanging in a spot.

Really most of the problems are not anglers, but people (young folks) having parties in out of the way spots by streams at night. Anglers get the blame because they can be seen during the day in those areas. So sneaky young kids with beer and music having parties in out of the way spots. Glad I never did that.
From what I see you are correct. I have fished a number of streams this year, and have seldom found any trash along them that can be traced to fishing. Admittedly I have not fished many heavily stocked areas. What I have found are party / camp out trash at several locations.
 
There is far less trash being thrown out now than in the past. Along the streams and even along the roads, there is much less trash than there was back in the 1960s and 1970s...

WHAT???????????

I pick up trash EVERY week along my property line. A local rural road that runs though several townships in my county has discarded trash all along its length as do most of the local roads and a LOT of it is empty beer cans exacerbated by the $#!+hole Wawa down the rod that sells beer.

It is so bad I even got my local legislator to get PennDOT to put up no littering signs but the law has no teeth, the fine is a joke and obviously the littering didn't stop.

Take a look at all of the trash that sits in the medians at exit ramps with traffic lights. The Route 3/West Chester Pike exit from I-476 South is usually covered with empty water bottles, soda & beer cans and other junk.

Bottom line, people are pigs and somehow I don't think the majority of the pigs are old enough to have seen the "crying Indian" commercials or had litter bags hanging from the cigarette lighter in their car...

Those pigs and other bad behavior by a society that thinks it's entitled to do whatever it wants is why most people post their property, even those with rural traditions.

People litter because they know mommy will come behind them and clean up their messes. First off, I ain't nobody's mommy... Second, that's' why they often times leave it behind in bag, to make it easier for mommy. I even seen it done with dog$#!+ on trails. They leave the crap on the ground...

...but are nice enough to leave it in a bag. :mad:

People are also ignorant and never take the time to engage a landowner and thank them for allowing access. I did it just yesterday on a local stream and the guy was VERY appreciative. Of course that doesn't mean some pig or other ^$$hole won't eventually screw it up, but at least it wasn't me...

I imagine sometime in the future after I'm long gone there will be almost no private property in Pennsylvania open to fishing. That will coincide perfectly with even less license sales and less revenue for the PFBC...

...which won't be needed anyway because there will be nowhere to fish...
 
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Everytime i fish i look like the 70s indian chief crying when i see all the litter some days
 
WHAT???????????

I pick up trash EVERY week along my property line. A local rural road that runs though several townships in my county has discarded trash all along its length as do most of the local roads and a LOT of it is empty beer cans exacerbated by the $#!+hole Wawa down the rod that sells beer.

It is so bad I even got my local legislator to get PennDOT to put up no littering signs but the law has no teeth, the fine is a joke and obviously the littering didn't stop.

Take a look at all of trash that sits in the medians at exit ramps with traffic lights. The Route 3/West Chester Pike exit from I-476 South is usually covered with empty water bottles, soda & beer cans and other junk.

Bottom line, people are pigs and somehow I don't think the majority of the pigs are old enough to have seen the "crying Indian" commercials or had litter bags hanging from the cigarette lighter in their car...

Those pigs and other bad behavior by a society that thinks it's entitled to do whatever it wants is why most people post their property, even those with rural traditions.

People litter because they know mommy will come behind them and clean up their messes. First off, I ain't nobody's mommy... Second, that's' why they often times leave it behind in bag, to make it easier for mommy. I even seen it done with dog$#!+ on trails. They leave the crap on the ground...

...but are nice enough to leave it in a bag. :mad:

People are also ignorant and never take the time to engage a landowner and thank them for allowing access. I did it just yesterday on a local stream and the guy was VERY appreciative. Of course that doesn't mean some pig or other ^$$hole won't eventually screw it up, but at least it wasn't me...

I imagine sometime in the future after I'm long gone there will be almost no private property in Pennsylvania open to fishing. That will coincide perfectly with even less license sales and less revenue for the PFBC...

...which won't be needed anyway because there will be nowhere to fish...
I agree with everything you said. I've lived in what used to be the quaint/clean little borough of Narberth in the Philly suburbs for 63 of my 67 years, and I see trash on the ground like NEVER before! A major increase in littering.

What I really don't understand, is these a$% holes who take the time to pick up their dog's crap, put it in the little plastic bag, and just throw it aside. So, now you have dog crap AND plastic laying there. If you're going to be like that, just leave the dog crap, which will dissipate pretty quickly, and you don't have the plastic that will sit there for God knows how long. Yes, IMO, litter is worse these days, generally speaking.
 
I imagine sometime in the future after I'm long gone there will be almost no private property in Pennsylvania open to fishing.
There will still be places with formal access, i.e. publicly owned land and land with access easements.

But, informal access, i.e. private land that is just left open to the public, will disappear.

In some areas of PA, informal access is almost entirely gone already.

And if all littering ended, it wouldn't change the outcome. Because the cause isn't littering. The cause is changes in land ownership patterns.

The upshot is that formal access must be secured for the places we wish to fish in the future.
 
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