Question (Mike ?) Regarding Young Women's Creek

[outsider]

I fished young woman's creek and cross fork creek a lot since the late 60's, and both streams had a good population of native brook trout in the lower regions of the streams. In fact young woman's creek had an excellent population of brookies in the lower region, and in both cases they co-existed with the stocked brown trout and wild brown trout.

Today, these streams are stocked with rainbow trout, in much lesser numbers than the brown trout that were stocked in the 70's and 80's. But the brookies have declined greatly in the lower regions of each creek.

Why? I don't know, but I do know these streams were hit hard by drought in the 90's and 2,000's.

Thoughts/comments?

 

[Chaz]

Because it is stocked and the droughts the last few years have whacked the wild populations. The stocking issue on the right branch. it didn't used to be stocked. Now it is and the populations are having trouble recovering with the over fishing the stocking brings and the droughts killing lots of fish in the summer.

 

[outsider]

Chaz,

I appreciate your input, but it was stocked then, with a lot more fish than are stocked now. The difference is the species of trout stocked (browns then and rainbows now) and the numbers of fish stocked then (more) and today less.

 

[Mike]

I recommend that you call or email Jason Detar, the AFM for that stream. I only surveyed it once.

 

[rrt]

Chaz is correct; the right hand branch was not stocked until local pressure urged the FBC to begin to allow stocking again. I used to make annual trips to YWC to fish for its wild browns and native brook trout and enjoyed some wonderful days. I have been back once since stocking was re-instituted and caught fish, but half of them were hatchery rainbows, which do not seem to belong in such a lovely, wild setting. I hope the FBC puts an end to this senseless stocking soon.

 

[troutbert]

outsider is also right about it being stocked back in the 1970s. Then it was taken off the stocking list as a Class A stream, sometime in the 1980s. Then it was put back on the stocking list because of local pressures, sometime around the very early 2000s.

 

[outsider]

Yes troutbert you are correct. Heavily stocked with brownies in the 60's, 70's, and into the 80's as were Cross Fork Creek and Slate Run.

Tons of fish, superb hatches, and little pressure when compared to today. At the end of the fishing day all we have is our memories, and my mind is filled with memories of those wonderful years on those streams.

 

[Chaz]

Section 2 of YWC is the only section thatreceives bow. All the other sections get browns and brooks or in the case of Section 2 LBYWC, it gets brooks only. Right Branch is not listed as being stocked, but is stocked by Western ClintonSportmans ***.
YWC, is a wild brook trout stream, and should not be stocked at all.
Stocking numbers are down all across PA therefore the numbers of stocked fish in YWC will also be down.

 

[outsider]

Chaz wrote:
Section 2 of YWC is the only section thatreceives bow. All the other sections get browns and brooks or in the case of Section 2 LBYWC, it gets brooks only. Right Branch is not listed as being stocked, but is stocked by Western ClintonSportmans ***.
YWC, is a wild brook trout stream, and should not be stocked at all.
Stocking numbers are down all across PA therefore the numbers of stocked fish in YWC will also be down.

Chaz:

If you look on the fish commission site, the right hand branch (C&R) is listed for stocking twice, same as the last couple of years.

 

[Chaz]

outsider wrote:

Chaz wrote:
Section 2 of YWC is the only section thatreceives bow. All the other sections get browns and brooks or in the case of Section 2 LBYWC, it gets brooks only. Right Branch is not listed as being stocked, but is stocked by Western ClintonSportmans ***.
YWC, is a wild brook trout stream, and should not be stocked at all.
Stocking numbers are down all across PA therefore the numbers of stocked fish in YWC will also be down.

Chaz:

If you look on the fish commission site, the right hand branch (C&R) is listed for stocking twice, same as the last couple of years.

As I said in a previous post the numbers of brookies are down because of stocking and droughts, and like I said Right Branch is stocked, but there is nothing that says PFBC stocks it on their web site. Western Clinton Sportsmen's ***. does. Add too that that the club fishes it hard and it is heavily impacted because of stocking. YWC is a wild trout stream headwaters to the mouth and should not be stocked at all. I for 1 won't fish it because of stocking. Under the old regs it was FFO, now it's ALo and that enters into the equation too.
Why do you think it's not fishing as well as it once did?

 

[outsider]

Here is the link that shows the Young Womans C&R stocking schedule:

http://fbweb.pa.gov/stocking/TroutStockingDetails_GIS.aspx

Just enter Clinton County and hit the go button.

 

[troutbert]

What people commonly call the "Right Branch" is referred to as Young Womans Creek by the USGS, PFBC, DEP etc.

And yes Young Womans Creek is all stocked, from headwaters to mouth, including what people call the "Right Branch."

Or "Right Hand Branch" as some of the old timers used to say.

IMHO, both sections 1 and 2 are good wild trout waters and the hatchery fish currently stocked there should be stocked in other places, providing recreation in waters that depend on stocking to provide recreation.

And allowing the wild trout populations to rise on Young Womans Creek. The overall result would be more TOTAL trout in the streams, so better overall fishing.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear outsider,

Young Womans Creek, the one that if you follow the road from Rte 120 by the ball field in Gleason up and over the hill you will eventually get to Dry Branch Road and Rte 44 was RUINED by stocking rainbows.

I had never fished it until the early 1990's but I can tell you that easily 90 percent of the fish I caught were stream born fish.

I would fish it once or twice or maybe 3 times a year. I never fished it during a good hatch except one time circa 1999 when I hit it during a sulphur hatch. It never mattered when I went, I always caught fish in good numbers and often in good sizes considering the overall size of the creek.

There were times when I would drive there on a Friday night, tuck my truck into a hole in the woods, and spend an entire weekend within walking distance of the truck. I rarely encountered a soul.

I haven't been back since stocking resumed, and I'm fairly certain I won't return either.

Putting trout in YWC made as much sense to me as putting bull sharks in the Delaware, but the locals won and they got what they wanted in bonus worm and ice sales.

Renovo has been the fastest growing town the USA for about 10 years now hasn't it, courtesy of the truck chasers?

I'll go on record here and say, oft times locals don't have the slightest clue as to what they actually have, and in the case of YWC that is readily apparent.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[salvelinus]

Tim, Dwight, great posts. My experience exactly. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Maurice]

Now Tim...hold on a minute bub...They must be buying worms and Ice for their beer and well, I don;t know what the worms are for cuza you cannot use bait or keep fish in the RHB. The whole WCCSA debacle was a snafu to serve two masters. By allowing stocking they pleased the guthookers of the WCCSPA, and by making it C&R with no harvest, they took away their right to keep the fish. The real question is "how many members "ACTUALLY USE" this area anymore? Even on a C&R basis.

Also it behooves the PF&BC to not survey this section again. They hammered it with surveys to get it below Class A so it could be stocked and now won't look at it to allow it to raise above again. It seems to me it had its destiny predetermined by the resident pellet purchasers. All t save gas carrying them over to LHB.

But As Mike says, "on a statewide basis, Wild trout are not impacted by stocking" Lets see...survey it, let us know the results. Perhaps it has elevated to Class A again. It doesn't seem environmentally responsible for a resource agency to cast away Class A sections of trout waters for the trade off of stocking under pressure from hilljacks under their own umbrella. But, well, hum ha, thats what we have.

 

[outsider]

I also heard quite a few times that the C&R section is heavily poached. And I certainly do not condone stocking it.

But my initial question still goes unanswered: Why did the native brookies co-exist with all the brown trout that were stocked way back when, and their numbers are so apparently low today in the C&R section? Rainbows rule?

I can also pass this on: I drove over YWC in the late 90's (approx. time period) in the summer and stopped at the bridge at rte. 120, and there was NO visible water. Just rocks. Coupled with all the droughts that area suffered since then, maybe this is a key to the answer.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I'm still waiting for AFM's to manage fisheries as "resource first".

Over the years it has gotten better but they still have a long way to go. I'm still waiting for the hatchery program to fail and it will one day, I have little doubt to the otherwise. Maybe then it will be resource first.

I feel for those that loved the wild trout fishery in YWC. It is a very neat stream in a very beautiful area. I can assure you that it is not an isolated case either. There are fisheries else where in pa that have suffered or continue to suffer the same fate.

 

[outsider]

PER THE AREA 3 FISHERIES MANAGER:

The lower reaches of both Young Womans Ck and Cross Fk are sensitive to water temperature during the summer months. When we’ve conducted fish surveys on these two streams during the past 10 year or so, we’ve been picking up species such as margined madtom, river chubs, smallmouth bass (cross fk). This tells us that these areas are getting too warm in the summer to support robust wild brook trout populations. We still do find brook trout, but in low densities. When we have a cooler summer with good rainfall, the wild trout in these systems tend to trend upwards the following year.

Thus, the primary limiting factor in these systems is water temperature. Hope this helps to answer your question.

 

[krayfish]

The fisheries manager was pretty much to the point and that should answer any questions. Below, I took the liberty of highlighting the portion of his reply pointing out stocking, rainbows in particular as the reason for the decline of the wild fish population.
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Intentionally blank

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[salvelinusfontinalis]

Bull.

PER THE AREA 3 FISHERIES MANAGER: The lower reaches of both Young Womans Ck and Cross Fk are sensitive to water temperature during the summer months. When we’ve conducted fish surveys on these two streams during the past 10 year or so, we’ve been picking up species such as margined madtom, river chubs, smallmouth bass (cross fk). This tells us that these areas are getting too warm in the summer to support robust wild brook trout populations. We still do find brook trout, but in low densities. When we have a cooler summer with good rainfall, the wild trout in these systems tend to trend upwards the following year. Thus, the primary limiting factor in these systems is water temperature. Hope this helps to answer your question.

So it gets warm in the last stretch of the stream for 4 months, so stock the heck out of them!

Here is your problem IMO to why when they stocked browns the wild fishing was better as opposed to rainbows.

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/fisheries/info_sheets/trout_movement.pdf

Link

Simply put, the browns got caught or packed their bags. The rainbows hang around.