PROPOSED GUN REGISTRATION

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1787856/posts

This site details the proposed 2007 ban. It says assault weapons, but if you read through it details features that are common to all guns.

Such as:
- Threaded Barrels (almost any bolt action deer rifle)
- Pistol grip (feature description inherant of most long guns)
- Semi Auto pistols
- Semi Auto shotguns

This is a petition against the currently proposed assault weapons ban that is more restrictive than the 1994 ban, which had virtually no positive effect on crime. Its only effect was possible on manufacture and trade by restriction of products.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348?ltl=1172942472

Its another case of the ill informed trying to villanize the gun and influenced by the ignorant, scared soccer mom crowd.
 
JackM wrote:
tomgamber wrote:
We may have to ban this discussion at the Jam...guns and alcohol don't mix. We should stick to something less heated like religion or stocking over wild fish. :cool:
Click to expand...

As long as we are all packing heat, it should be okie-dokie since that is the key to stopping gun violence.
Click to expand...

Now that's not fair. I live out off state, and can't bring mine if i decide to come! why should you have all the fun!!! :lol:
 
BigHink66 wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1787856/posts

This site details the proposed 2007 ban. It says assault weapons, but if you read through it details features that are common to all guns.

Such as:
- Threaded Barrels (almost any bolt action deer rifle)
- Pistol grip (feature description inherant of most long guns)
- Semi Auto pistols
- Semi Auto shotguns

This is a petition against the currently proposed assault weapons ban that is more restrictive than the 1994 ban, which had virtually no positive effect on crime. Its only effect was possible on manufacture and trade by restriction of products.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348?ltl=1172942472

Its another case of the ill informed trying to villanize the gun and influenced by the ignorant, scared soccer mom crowd.
Click to expand...


Hey Jack M.

Even I would say that the above message was misleading at best ...

The original assult weapons ban, which was allowed to expire was simply a joke, anyway. Of the 17 "assault rifles" that were originally outlawed by it, 11 had minor design changes to take them off the list. So I ccouldn't buy a street sweeper anymore. big deal. I could still buy an AR-15 after the bayonet mount was removed. If I decide to rob a bank, it won't be at bayonet point. On the other hand, I could have gotten a deer with a bayonet last year. That would have been interesting. :lol:
 
"Even I would say that the above message was misleading at best ..."

Please expand on this statement.
 
Consider:
I must register my ownership of my car or it can be impounded.
If I sell or give away my car, I must tranfer the title in writing.
I am required to have a photo driver's license to operate that car.

Query:
Why should I have greater secrecy and privacy with respect to gun ownership and transfer than vehicle ownership and transfer?



That does beg the question of the validity of having to do those things. Just becuase they are not expressly addressed in our founding documents the gov. goes to town regulating them. It is a slippery slope, and what is OK today is a summary offense tomorrow. Next thing you know John Wayne is getting charged with a hate crime and sitting on death row for an unregistered horse and a pistol grip.....and we wonder why we can't win a war! It is because we are afreaid to be the rugged individgual that this country was founded on.
 
"Next thing you know John Wayne is getting charged with a hate crime and sitting on death row for an unregistered horse and a pistol grip.....and we wonder why we can't win a war!"

Since when have we tried to win a war?


"It is because we are afreaid to be the rugged individgual that this country was founded on."

Those type of people disappeared long long time ago.
 
The real wonder is that we can't win a peace. Though I've heard it said that winning a peace is much harder. We should challenge ourselves a little more, I think.
 
I know it is cold, but lets use these creative minds to invent flys that the trout won't laugh at. Or spend this time at the vise!! , at least you will have jelly beans to pack, the first in season outing this year. HAPPY EASTER TO ALL
 
(Concerning Jack's question on why it's acceptable to register cars but not guns)
ryanh wrote:
That does beg the question of the validity of having to do those things. Just becuase they are not expressly addressed in our founding documents the gov. goes to town regulating them.
Click to expand...
Do you think it's a bad thing that the government requires registration of cars? Isn't this a good thing for law enforcement, something that makes all of us safer and makes it tougher on the bad guys? From car thieves to hiding felons to Timothy McVeigh? Just askin' a question.
 
Chaz's post about the previous Supreme Court considerations was very interesting. The way I understood it, the 2nd amendment is viewed as only guaranteeing the right to bear arms for the purpose of acting as a militia if called upon, so ownership of any arms that do not serve that purpose isn't guaranteed. Hence the ruling that sawed-off shotguns can be banned. So this means that AK-47's and such are the prime kind of weapons that the 2nd amendment protects? Very strange.
 
BigHink66 wrote:
"Even I would say that the above message was misleading at best ..."

Please expand on this statement.
Click to expand...

To be specific. The part that you summarized is very misleading.

This site details the proposed 2007 ban. It says assault weapons, but if you read through it details features that are common to all guns.

Such as:
- Threaded Barrels (almost any bolt action deer rifle)
- Pistol grip (feature description inherant of most long guns)
- Semi Auto pistols
- Semi Auto shotguns
Click to expand...

First of all, none of those by themselves would land any gun on the banned list.

Not to mention …

The first one refers to the business end of the barrel. It is so yu can't attach a screw on silencer or flash supresser. Every woodchuck hunter needs one of those (sarcasm). They are not talking about the chamber end. If you want to get real crazy, you could argue that the rifling is indead threads.

The second one is not inherent on most long guns. Although most stocks do curve downward, that is not a pistol grip. A pistol grip is one you can wrap your hand completely around the grip, not one where you can wrap completely around the stock. I suppose you could argue that a thumb hole stock is a pistol grip, but they are not found on most long funs.

The last two that you listed are only partial qualifications based on what I read.

Keep in mind, I haven’t said whether or not I think the bill is a good thing. I just don’t like “sky is falling” scare tactics whether it is about global warming, gun control or anything else.

I’m betting the list will change some more, because some of the weapons listed have been built to not fall under the original ban.
 
Wulff-Man wrote:
Chaz's post about the previous Supreme Court considerations was very interesting. The way I understood it, the 2nd amendment is viewed as only guaranteeing the right to bear arms for the purpose of acting as a militia if called upon, so ownership of any arms that do not serve that purpose isn't guaranteed. Hence the ruling that sawed-off shotguns can be banned. So this means that AK-47's and such are the prime kind of weapons that the 2nd amendment protects? Very strange.
Click to expand...


That is one interpretation. I believe it even stated in the footnotes there are others that are far different. I think in laymen's terms, that is simply CYA.

Another interpretation is that it's intent was so that the people could protect them from tyranny, foreign or domestic. There were local and state militias at one time. thanks to the civil war, this was eventually replaced by the national guard. OK, that is oversimplified, but I think you get my drift.
 
Sorry Farmer but your not exactly an authority on the mechanical workings of firearms.

"The first one refers to the business end of the barrel. It is so you can't attach a screw on silencer or flash supresser."

I don't know where you seen this info suggesting which end but even in that event thousands of rifles are threaded at the end for recoil arrestors and tuning devices. Either of which do the exact opposite that a silencer does.

And since it does not explicitly say threaded at the muzzle, there are several bolt action rifle that ARE threaded to the reciever.

"The second one is not inherent on most long guns. Although most stocks do curve downward, that is not a pistol grip."

Several gun manufactures offer what they call a straight stock or a pistol grip version on many of their shotguns. This bill does not describe what a pistol grip is, but I guess thats your role! If the manufacturer has defined it as a pistol grip than I guess that is not the truth till you've put in your 2 cents.

"The last two that you listed are only partial qualifications based on what I read."

- Semi Auto pistols
- Semi Auto shotguns


A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel; I guess as you define, its the muzzle or "business end"
`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or (Not explicitly defined either, could be a forearm)

`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has-- (Show me a semi auto pistol that does not have a detachable magazine)

`(i) a second pistol grip;

`(ii) a threaded barrel; (here you go again Mr. Business End)

`(iii) a barrel shroud; or

`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds. (Most semi auto shotguns if not all have a 5 round capacity and it is reduced to 2 rounds through the use of a removeable plug)

`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.



Quite frankly, I think that you are misleading or mislead. And while I believe that JackM may have different opinions on the subject than I do, at least I can tell that he is educated on what he speaks about and is reluctant to do as you have done and stick his foot in his "Business End".
 
`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.
 
FarmerDave wrote:

Now that's not fair. I live out off state, and can't bring mine if i decide to come! why should you have all the fun!!! :lol:
Click to expand...

Dave, you should try to come to the Jam. Would it help if someone brought an extra sidearm for your use while you are with us?

I don't know if your fingers would fit in a five shot Derringer, but I think I might be able to lend you one that my greatgrandfather won in duel.
 
"Do you think it's a bad thing that the government requires registration of cars? Isn't this a good thing for law enforcement, something that makes all of us safer and makes it tougher on the bad guys? From car thieves to hiding felons to Timothy McVeigh? Just askin' a question."


In short Wulffman I do not think that it is a bad idea that the governemts requires registration of cars, but like I said it is a slippery slope. We are at the point now where I can get in trouble w/ the law for not wearing a bicycle helmet.....but not a motercycle helmet. A criminal is a criminal, and we are all now breaking some law that we don't even know exists.

This is getting a little Atlas Shrugged-ish. I am not a gun nut, but if they want to take somethig that is expressly protected in the constitution then think about what they will do where they have wiggle room.

"shall not be infringed" is pretty wiggle proof if you ask me. In fact some of the people on the loosing side of the recent DC gun ban said that this ruling in effect means that no gun laws are constitutional.

Also the militia is the whole of the peole. The minute men were not regular army. And does it not raise a red flag if some established body of government tries to dismiss this idea? The heart of man can be dark and ammendment #2 preserves the right of the little guy to defend himself.
 
I'm going to contact my state rep and senator, if anyone knows of the website to find your state legislator it would be a good addition to the thread.

For the proposed 2007 assault weapons ban consider:
Turkey shotguns - many are semi-auto, pistol grip, have a threaded barrel for choke tubes, and some have telescoping stocks to adjust the length for individuals. Would this be an assault weapon? I don't think may bank robbers and terrorists are using turkey guns to break the law.

Additionally most crimes are not committed by the person that legally owns and uses the gun. When I worked at a juvie detention center MOST of the kids there had used or claimed to have used some type of firearm. Where did they get it? Stolen or bought on the street from illegal importers -- not going down the the gun shop and buying the firearm. How will my registering a gun prevent one crime?? Currently is it illegal for a felon to own a firearm -- why do we need more laws to enforce the current ones??

Here is the real question. Say a killing spree started using fly rods. (Yes I know - not going to happen, but follow along.) How would you feel about registering, fingerprinting, and paying $10 (yea that's not going to increase) for each rod to NOT prevent a crime?
 
Guys,

I have to say this thread and a couple of others have moved out of the gray area and across the line lately in many of the comments. I don't mind the topics, but I think I need to remind everyone that the purpose of the board is to be a positive contributor to the Pennsylvania Fly Fishing community. It's all in the approach and you don't need a jack hammer to drive in a nail.

This website is here to help foster a shared interest in expanding our knowledge, experience and most importantly our enjoyment for Fly Fishing in Pennsylvania. Humor, ideas, debate, and opinions are encouraged. Deliberate insults, personal attacks, and lewd comments are not welcome for any reason.

I admire many of you for your ability to tackle the topics and the passion in your convictions. But, this is the kind of community I would want my son and my father to visit. A place for all of us to be proud of what we believe in, but even more in how we convey it. I challenge all of you to take the higher ground in your approach.

Just remember what David St. Hubbins said in the movie Spinal Tap, "It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever. "

Dave
 
Here's what I think!


JH
 
Dave,
Point well taken. It was just one of those issues that seems to get leggs of their own. Next thing you know they are running around the house breaking things. I chalk it up to the weather :-o
 
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