Proposed changes in Upper Delaware River Regs

[dryflyguy]

You guys certainly make good arguments for keeping the section closed in winter.

I should point out that I've always fished the shared PA section of the river.
And have never been up there after October either.

So, yeah, I didn't know that it's the main spawning area.

 

[krayfish2]

Tom,
No amount of pleading is stopping that hydro project. They've already made their mind up. it remains to be seen how it's going to impact the releases.

I agree that the inhospitable conditions in the heart of Winter and the fact that it freezes over in many places will keep anglers away but as Mark said there are still several honey holes where the bait fishermen can go and run up pretty good numbers of big fish. If I fish after the first week of october, I usually stay lower on the system and almost exclusively target rainbows. Hell, I try to catch rainbows most of the year anyhow, more fun due to their spastic nature.

Mike,
What do you think contributed to the bad fishing on the upper east last year? The previous year had low flows and high temperatures but this past spring fishing was as good as I can remember...but only for 5-6 days. Numbers and good size if you could brave the horrible conditions. One day I was wearing more clothing than a person sledding.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

The points made here make sense.

With the exception of a closed season, how will micromanaging regs (ie, floating fly line, etc.) be enforceable? For that matter, how will creel limits be enforceable? If locas want to poach, they will. Creel limits may have the opposite of the desired effect. After some of the stories Kray told me about the lawless behavior of some locals in that area, I think there would be a hard anti-authority push back by some.

I don't mean to be negative. I just thing a lot of rules and regulations (not just fishing) are put in place to appease or make us feel good but are not particularly practical.

I wonder what the NY biologists and politicians hope to "fix" with the proposed changes...

 

[moon1284]

I dont really know what affected the upper east. The entire east didn't fish poorly, just the upper east.

I saw more guys meat fishing on the upper east and heard a lot more Russian. I also saw fish carcasses (cleaned) in the water on the upper east. I think harvest played a role.

When you know a river you know where fish hold. If its mainly guys releasing fish it turns into the wb above barking dog (lots of fish with hook scars that are tough to catch). If it's guys keeping fish it turns barren.

Last year to me at least, the upper east was a shell of itself.

 

[wbranch]

Ryansheehan wrote;


"No more closed season. Curious what Moon, wbranch and Kray think. Pretty sure Kray won't like it."

I don't like it. The WB used to have far more fish, fewer anglers, less guides, and lots of big fish.

Now there are fisherman/women everywhere, everyday, from March to the river freezes over. Every Tom, ****, and Harry who read one fly fishing book thinks they can be a "guide". The WB is good wild trout fishing but it isn't, and never was, as good as the Madison or any of the blue ribbon Montana rivers.

Now there are just too many guide boats and the trout have no rest. They are pounded relentlessly day in and day out. It was nice when NYS used to close the trout season on September 30. Only the No Kill waters on the Beaverkill and Willowmoc stayed open. I'm not sure if the No Kill on the WB remained open because I didn't buy my cabin until 1996.

When the season used to have a closed period it gave the fish a chance to recover from the constant harassment they went through all season. Sure I have a boat and float the main and WB. I would never float the upper East (with the Hyde) because it is too small and disturbs wading anglers fishing.

Keeping the status quo would of been fine. Open season from April 01 to October 15. Then close the upper WB from mid point on Monument to the reservoir. Allow border water angling, C&R only, from mid Monument down to the junction.

Give the trout a break from mid October to the following April, go chase smallmouth, go for steelhead, tie flies, fish for stripers.

I know I sound a bit selfish. I'm a cranky old man who has likely fished the system at least as long as anyone else on this forum. I don't want to catch a lot of fish, and I don't only want to catch big fish. I just want to enjoy my days on the river casting to rising fish, landing a few, and hoping the river remains healthy for all you guys after I'm no longer around.

 

[wbranch]

Krayfish wrote;

"Are people so selfish that it's more important to catch a fish in December than it is to leave the river alone to produce the next generation of trophies?"

Yes, I believe some guys are like that. They don't have the foresight to realize the fishery needs care and the trout need a break over the long winter period. A moratorium on trout on the system would give the trout an opportunity to recover from 6-7 months of constant catching and handling.


I've caught (no BS) hundreds of 17" - 21" browns and a fair amount of really BIG browns but those big fish numbers are falling way down for me. I may fish a little less now than when I first retired in 2005 but I still fish at least two mid week days form late April to late September. I truly believe the big fish numbers are going down due to all increasing amount of anglers. I used to see rising fish all the time on water near my cabin. The insect life hasn't changed that much but the boat traffic has grown exponentially. The trout want to surface feed but they just can't really get into a rhythm during certain periods of the season and during the peak daily floating times.

 

[Jaybird]

This maybe the least of it , but it's nice to have a traditional trout season . Opening Day is a part of Catskill Heritage . Shame to see that go away .

 

[RivDiv521]

As wbranch noted I've also found fewer rising fish in a couple of the pools that would nearly always have some surface activity. One of my first stops whenever I'd go to the West Branch was the Methodist Pool where it was unusual not to see some fish working. The last couple years it has been a biological desert whenever I've been there. Don't know the reason but something seems to have changed.

 

[afishinado]

No doubt fishing has been tougher in the Upper D River as of late.

I doubt a few anglers fishing in the winter will make much of a difference.

Let's face it, there is way too much pressure on the trout throughout the spring and summer and into the fall.

Perhaps donning the winter gear, fishing in the peace and quiet, and maybe hooking up with a fish or two may be the only way to enjoy the River again before the circus comes back to town in the spring.

Just saying....

 

[Mike]

Perhaps those who say the fishing is worse should track their catch per hour rate per day and then take the averages of those daily catch rates to calculate an average for the season or per month (if one fishes a lot). That’s the only objective way to really know.

Using a specific fly fishing technique (while wading, not boating) and recording the catch rate for trout 15 inches and over in 2020 across a very good number of late spring through summer trips, my friend’s mean catch rate was the highest it has been in a number of years at 1.5 per hr.

 

[wbranch]

" Don't know the reason but something seems to have changed."

The oil spill when the train derailed? Alien abduction?

I used to see awesome Sulfur hatches from the Methodist Pool right down to my cabin. Lots of duns and rises everywhere. I've not seen that amount of activity in at least five years.

Maybe it is just cyclical and will come back or maybe something happened to wipe out most of the nymphs.

 

[dryflyguy]

wbranch wrote:
" Don't know the reason but something seems to have changed."

The oil spill when the train derailed? Alien abduction?

I used to see awesome Sulfur hatches from the Methodist Pool right down to my cabin. Lots of duns and rises everywhere. I've not seen that amount of activity in at least five years.

Maybe it is just cyclical and will come back or maybe something happened to wipe out most of the nymphs.

I saw nice BWO and Iso hatches at the junction hole last fall - 1st week of October

 

[wbranch]

"I saw nice BWO and Iso hatches at the junction hole last fall - 1st week of October".

I'm not inferring there is a total absence of hatches. Just fewer in areas where they were once prolific.

 

[krayfish2]

Matt

Don't forget that we've had 100 yr, 500 yr and 1000 yr floods over the last 15 years. It's got to impact the river in some way but I'll say that I've seen some great hatches in high water and just after some of the horrible flooding. Hell, one of the best dry fly days we ever had was when the Hale Eddy gauge was close to 6000 cfs. It was virtually impossible to stop the boat except in a few spots. Go figure

 

[wbranch]

Hi Andy,

I hear you and I would think the flood of June 2006 (500 year event) had to have had some detrimental effect on all the rivers. Whether or not it was short term or long term it altered the fishing somewhat. There are fewer of all the major may flies and I've not seen any Green Drakes for about five years. Now the drakes may be strong on other sections of the WB but I'm only speaking to the water from the MP to Sands Creek.

 

[krayfish2]

Anyone interested should submit an email to: fish@dec.ny.gov

I'll be hammering them from every email account I can find.

MUST BE DONE BY 1-30-21 !!!

 

[krayfish2]

Yeah, I'm an idiot. The correct email address is:

regulations.fish@dec.ny.gov

 

[wbranch]

Mike wrote;

"my friend’s mean catch rate was the highest it has been in a number of years at 1.5 per hr."

That is huge! Your friend is one heck of a fisherman. Is that fish/hour based on the Delaware or every where he fishes?

My average catch rate on the Delaware (all branches)is about 0.500 per hour.

I don't think anyone can say they fish the Delaware system for quantity of trout landed. Years ago back in the early 1960's to the late 1970's I had many 8/10 fish days on the main stem. In fifty-five years I've only had a handful of days where I landed a dozen or more. Two days do stand out; One on the WB right in my home pool about ten years ago I put 18 trout in the net. Hendrickson's and apple caddis were emerging all day long. The river was quite low and I was able to wade anywhere and cover fish that would of normally been out of reach while wading.

The other time I floated from Shehawken to Buck in mid May and the caddis were very prolific that day and I netted another 18 fish. All 12" - 19".

There were two other days, June 02-03 2013 where I caught so many 16" - 21" browns on streamers (there was a high water event that had alewives coming over the dam in Cannonsville)that if I told you the number you wouldn't believe me. So just imagine that dream we all have of an amazing day coming true. I've included a few pictures from those two days.

 

[larkmark]

Nice ones wb!

Many a trip up there for me to catch maybe 3 in a weekend. Sometimes I do better but never 1.5 hr. Haha.

 

[krayfish2]

Matt,

I know you almost strictly fish on top but I can tell you that I've had days (with other members on this forum) where we have run up really big numbers. Granted, you have to check your soul at the door and visit the dark side of nymphing. I ran the boat for my buddy last year (river section not disclosed but moon knows where I was) and the guy hooked 28 fish nymphing. He only landed 13 of them which were all 16-20". During that float, I stopped a dozen times so I could cast to rising fish. Hooked 13...landed 12. They were all over 15 but under 20". I've had Stimey and Norm from the forum nymphing one day where we put OVER 40 fish in the net. They can verify. I think one was under 14"...the rest were really good fish including one of the biggest trout I've ever tried to net which was a brown in the very upper 20's.

With all of that said, the river will hand you the skunk 10 times before it ever considers giving you a good day to remember. I don't have to have killer days anymore, I'm just happy to be there taking it all in.