Proposed changes in Upper Delaware River Regs

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Great data but im not following.

Reported Brown Trout catch, (interview data)
Total catch 2,645 trout of which 67 (2.5 %) were harvested
Overall catch rate was 0.25 trout/hour or 1 trout per 4 hours spent fishing
Reported Rainbow Trout catch, (interview data)
Total catch 700 trout of which 9 (1.3 %) were harvested
Overall catch rate was 0.06 trout/hour or 1 trout per 16.6 hours spent fishing



Based on the 2018 creel data, the recreational fishery is focused almost entirely on trout, fly fishing is the predominant technique, and catch and release is widely practiced.
2,947 (76.5 %) fly tackle
3,649 (94.7 %) specifically targeting trout

Is the need to reduce to creel limit to offset the damage done by fishing over the spawn and year round pressure?

 

[Dave_W]

Thanks for posting that link Sal - good stuff.

 

[larkmark]

Mark C is correct. Lot of good questions Sal.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" seems apt.

 

[ryansheehan]

Not my home river but one that is very dear to my heart. I will say I have seen meat fisherman with stringers of trout before. I'm also a guy who loves to fish in the winter, so there is that too. That being said I don't know any where near enough about the river to have an informed opinion. I just hope that these changes result in positive and not negative results.

As for the guides, my father and I go up yearly and do three or four days of guided trips. The guide we were with two springs ago (we skipped 2020) would spend a few months on the Deleware, than drive to Colorado, then to Erie, then to the Holston. I don't think there are many guides working year round on the Deleware but guess that could change.

As for whoever is taking shots at guided trips, my father is too old to wade, it's the only way we can be out on the river together. Those are moments I will cherish for the rest of my life. Ease up on the guides, they are providing a needed service.

Any time the trout pro gets brought it makes my day, thanks Kray!

 

[moon1284]

It's not for money. The bump to the economy will be next to nothing. There may be a few guide trips in the winter but not many. DEC doesn't do much for money, they lowered license prices a few years ago. DEC overall does a good job with fishery management. NY has tremendous fishing for smallmouth, pike, muskie, trout, walleye, yellow perch, and does a good job managing the only stream on the southern shore of Ontario or erie that has natural reproduction of steelhead and they are only working to make it better. NY also recently opened smallmouth fishing year round which i also disagree with, but ending closed seasons is the new norm in freshwater fishing.

I'm not super worried about the branches or mainstem being pounded the beaverkill section that is currently open year round gets little pressure outside of trout season.

I've read the report. I hope people who want big fish outside of trout season go to world class lake Ontario tribs like burt dam, oak orchard, and salmon river. I've fished pretty much every Ontario trib from 4 mile creek to the black River and every erie trib from the niagata River to 20 mile. If anyone has the urge to fish the upper del from 10/15 to 4/1 let me know. I'll gladly blow up any great lake trib in New York to persuade you otherwise.

 

[krayfish2]

LoL Moon. Don't spot burn the lake tribs!

My take is...
You have a near world class trout fishery that is self sustaining. What good could possibly come from having a-wipes stomping around the redds or having instagram trout pros targeting the redds? It's not going to improve the number of fish surviving to fingerling size or increase the amount of 20"+ fish. If you are a landowner on that section, you welcome a 6 month break in having people walking around your property or through your yard.
Itt can only negatively impact fish and landowner relations.

I wish I understood but I don't. Are people so selfish that it's more important to catch a fish in December than it is to leave the river alone to produce the next generation of trophies?

As for the study numbers, fishermen are lying or they can't tell the difference between a brown and a bow. Maybe it's just how I fish but 30+ years of fishing there gave me different numbers. in a season, I catch almost as many rainbows as I do browns.

It definitely changes based on the time of year but I'll describe it as follows:

Upper WB 85% brown, 15% rainbow
Upper EB 99.5% brown, 0.5% brook
Lower WB 65% brown, 35% rainbow
Lower EB 45% brown, 65% rainbow
Upper main 50-50 brown/rainbow
Middle main 35% brown, 65% rainbow
Lower main 20% brown, 80% rainbow

Mike, Mike, Matt, Chris or any other regulars, do those percentages seem pretty accurate or have you had different results?

I have taken guys from this forum up there for at least 10 years. Some will never go back and others are hooked. Tough but amazing place.

 

[larkmark]

I think you bring up a lot of good points. The landowner issue is huge. In fact all over the state this is getting to be a problem.
What the heck could possibly warrant longer fishing up there?
What possible reason?

 

[moon1284]

Land owners can post however they want. They could close access seasonally if they want. There is a guy on an erie trib that posts his property and doesn't allow centerpinners but allows flyfishermen...

Agree with the fish breakdown.

 

[Canoetripper]

I have canoed the upper Delaware River 10 times. We put in at either Ball's or Hale's Eddy on the WB. Every trout caught below Hancock, NY was a rainbow. Trout were caught as far south as Callicoon, NY.

I haven't done this since the early 1990's.

I stopped doing canoe/camp trips then not because I didn't love the river but because it was too hard to camp. I respect private property owners and don't care for public camping with everyone else.

Boom boxes, fire crackers, etc. Not my idea of camping. The only things I want to hear are the snap crackle and pop of a camp fire and the soothing sound of running water.

 

[falcon]

Another bad idea. The river had a drawdown for pipe repair and there was a bad flood just a few weeks ago. Do you think the insects, trout eggs and fry survived? Now we will have more scarred fish and destroyed redds. Does not look like its going to get better anytime soon.

 

[krayfish2]

I don't want to leave out Tom or Bill on this since they both have fished it for years. Thoughts gentlemen?

Just don't think anything good can come from this decision

 

[dryflyguy]

I'm kinda neutral on this.

Cutting the harvest rate from 5 down to 1 - which, I wasn't even aware that you could kill that many - is certainly a big plus.

As for no closed season: I believe the WB in PA has had that for years - am I right on that?
And it's still a pretty nice fishery.

So fishermen have been able to go up there and fish during winter all along - from PA line down.
I don't see a large increase in pressure just because you can now do it in NY portion too

Personally, I don't bother wild fish after October anyway.
And even after the spawn, I wouldn't go up there because of the frigid conditions.

Being open to fishing all year doesn't seem to bother Penns, Spring Creek, etc.......

 

[CLSports]

What dryflyguy says is my point too. I don't see it having that much of an impact on the upper WB fishery. Most people who go there with a guide want to go when there are hatches and the weather is favorable. Diehard winter fisherman have always had opportunities on the WB from the gamelands down and has it been over-crowded in the winter? No. Hardly anyone goes there because the fishing is tough. If you work the lower WB and main with nymphs in the winter for bows that would be your best opportunity for fish. The upper west would see some fish rising to midges, but that is not going to create a rush of wading anglers like the spring hatches will. Winter in NY has everyone going to the Lake Ontario and other lake tribs.

And remember, this open winter trout season is for the entire state, not just the Delaware. Not everyone is going to flock to the WB just because it is open for the winter. I will though! I like winter fishing. I have drifted the Allegheny and Lehigh in the winter for trout.

I doubt the guiding will increase in the winter either. I am sure there will be some, but nothing to get all worried about.

I would like to see more public access and boat ramps on the upper EB actually. I saw mention of eliminating stocking on the upper EB and creating more public access.

I also read that NY has seen that the open winter trout fishing has had little negative affect in PA on wild trout stream populations and is following that approach.

 

[CLSports]

We seem to easily forget that the most harmful negative affects on any wild trout stream is not the fisherman, but rather the degradation of ecosystem. Lets keep the wild places, wild.

 

[krayfish2]

To reply to DFG comment about the WB remaining open from monument to the junction....

You've fished there long enough to know how much spawning water there is located in the upper few miles. That's where a lot of the new fish are generated. If it's a dry spell, the release is so low during the winter and those fish will be sitting ducks.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if there's any impact. Rainbow spawn and redds are subject to getting stomped on every spring but they are like ****roaches.

 

[CLSports]

Rainbow spawn and redds are subject to getting stomped on every spring but they are like ****roaches.

Rainbow lives matter.

 

[afishinado]

As others have said above, the impact of winter fishing in the upper, Upper D River will be low and ditto on the East Branch.

Most years the amount of anglers and certainly the amount of fish caught will be insignificant.

And if anglers do manage to catch a few fish in the frigid waters, so what?

That would only be a small number of fish caught compared to anglers fishing in the spring and summer.

Also the number of anglers wading in the frigid water, most years having to dodge icebergs if they chose to fish will be negligible.

I am in favor of new C&R rules, but again, I'm not sure how much impact that will have on the overall river population of trout.

If you really want to help the D River trout, worry more about NYC building a hydro plant at the Cannonsville dam....

 

[larkmark]

As krayfish said that upper river is spawning and nursery water. I am all for protecting it. also the East. Those fish get beat up like crazy for months. Someone compared Spring Creek saying it was not effected by year round fishing. I disagree. The fish in Spring have gotten way smaller. Why? It is the constant catching and handling that eventually kills them leaving only fish as long as a hot dog. This is also starting to happen on Penns and Fishing Creek. The winter fishing popularity is having many negative effects. And landowners are getting tired of it too.

 

[MarkC]

I know a few of the local fisherman up there and they are very good with bait and rapalas and they (legally) keep a lot of the trout they catch. The winter over pools are well known to them.

The West Branch is no longer stocked with hatchery fish from the states or from the reservoir spilling over (a common occurrence before the change in water policies), It takes about 4 years to replace each 18” trout creeled, add fishing in the winter months, plus the pressure on the fish running the tributaries and there is no way natural reproduction will keep up.

Mark C

 

[moon1284]

The upper east branch fished poorly for me last year, and I fish it a ton. I have my suspicions as to why and I think lower creel limits will help.

NY will get fished harder in PA in the winter because the upper west has the highest trout density in the entire system. It also is an important spawning zone for brown trout. Its not guys fishing midges that I'm worried about.

At a bare minimum the regs should be fly fishing only with floating line only and unweighted flies (similar to summer regs in Altmar).

Mark Cs post above is 100% correct. Catch and release isn't good enough in the off season. The methods allowed have to make it impossible to catch spawning fish (and make it as hard as possible to hook anything). The new regs make it too easy to catch fish. If you really need to fish out of season, target aggressive fish with a dry fly or a swung fly, don't dredge the river with a Stonefly nymph, or egg pattern or san Juan worm hoping to drift it into a fishes mouth. That's what the ontario tribs are for.