Pink Buttons!!

[Chaz]

RLeeP wrote:
"My point is/was that they don't seem to want to listen to much in the way of angler input on important fisheries management issues but happily solicited angler votes to decide which color license button to produce."

I can sympathize.. I had an Uncle who refused to consider buying a Buick, but had no problem wearing argyle socks.

Or put less cryptically, I'm not sure you have much of a point.

My view would be that warts and all, of all the states with significant wild trout resources to manage, Pennsylvania is almost certainly in the top quintile in terms of forward oriented policies towards these fisheries. Could the policies be better? Maybe. Probably. There's always room for improvement. Are the policies as-is pretty favorable towards wild trout given the percentage of the angling stakeholder base that really cares about wild trout and are these policies more wild trout friendly than those in a lot of states? You bet your argyle socks they are.

So far as purely social questions like the DH/bait issue, I don't really have an opinion. I don't see them having much if anything to do with the Commission's "Resource First" mission statement.

Thanks for letting me vent. I'm all in favor of constructive criticism and discussion of the Commission's role in managing our wild trout fisheries. I'm less interested in how they manage our pink button resource...

Their Trout Management Policies are great, but they for some reason choose to pretty much ignore what their policies are, I could list many ways they ignore the policies, but the Trout Management Plan is a very long document.
I hate PINK. Now I feel better, where's Jeff F when we need him?

 

[Chaz]

SteveG wrote:
The worst part about the change is the time and effort TU chapters have put into some of these areas to improve wild trout habitat, only to have it go to waste.

No, the worst part is TU Chapters waste a lot of time and money on DH areas, which as I recall are supported by the most part by stocking. The populations of wild trout in those areas is almost always few to none. There are 67 counties in PA and 64 counties have wild trout streams, of which TOO MANY are ignored.

 

[Chaz]

poopdeck wrote:
Seems we are are both thick headed B-tards. On top of time constraints the biggest problem I have with the TU or other conservation groups is thier very narrow single issue approach to things and their intolerant and rude response to the different opinions and approaches of others.

I teach my kids the importance of family, commitment, community, volunteerism and respect of those with differing opinions. We all volunteer our time to various organizations such as soup kitchens, childrens hospital, and other children's health issues. I will not ever be a part of a group that prefers to beat people down because of a different opinion. That is exactly what the offending post represents and is exactly how many conservation groups act and treat people. Good luck with the handful of people you get help from based on rants like that.

I've got to ask for an explanation for why you feel this way.

 

[Chaz]

FishTales wrote:
Interesting discussion that strayed a bit form the posted topic. However, you guys and gals need to read my next Straight Talk article in our Jan/Feb Angler and Boater magazine. It is called "The Common Man" and discusses the fact that those of us passionate enough to be debating button colors, fisheries management issues or anything else related to conservation or recreation are the uncommon men. We need to activate the common man since they are the majority. Unfortunately we only hear from the vocal minority. For example there were only 5000 votes cast for the button color and we have 1.1 million anglers and sell 850k licenses. Help me figure out how to make the common men the uncommon men so we can get more public opinion for decisions we make on button colors or anything else. Thanks.

Your Director,

Fish tales

Dear Director,
Listen to all the anglers. If you really want to hear what they think, Stop Stocking altogether, I'm sure you'll hear from plenty of them. Of course T.U. will be accused of to much influence, but at least you'll here from them.
Your Pal, Chaz

 

[BrookieChaser]

Now we know the problem. There will be no more trout stream buffers in PA because not enough people show up to make lifeless water a "make believe trout stream" which is is akin to waiting until the house burns down to install smoke detectors. I don't doubt TU does some good with lobbying and research. That's why I paid my membership. But their lobbying power is in dues paying members, not the surgeons that do the plastic surgery on the stream.

Now don't you think the failure of the Endangered Species bill had big business up in arms against the conservation front? That's the reason the buffer bill passed. Let's face it, nature has no material value and therefore no value at all to, at least, 90% of the population.

Hell, only 1% of the anglers in PA even care about wild trout. The way you make a difference is to up that 1%.

 

[TimRobinsin]

this thread is cracking me up!

if you just want to sit by and enjoy the benefits of the work of a few people that is fine. seriously, it's all good. just don't be surprised when your rantings online draw fire when everything goes to poop because the few people doing anything say: "eff this noise I'm done"

you cannot expect anything to improve with an attitude of indifference. I do think that conservation groups carry some of the blame for making many problems appear to be an emergencies but at the same time it takes that sense of urgency to get folks to do anything.

I mean look at the impending ebola crisis we are facing right now. that shizz was right at our borders along with isis and people were ready to build a big friggin wall and shut down all flights. It got a great reaction from people. you can't blame conservation groups for playing that game. it's the way of American politics.

meanwhile the PFBC is re-evaluating it's management plan and a bill gets passed to basically neutralize coldwater protections and yall are like: "geez somebody really should have done something"

you can't have your scrapple and eat it too. complain if you must but don't be surprised when others ask "where were you?"

 

[PatrickC]

Mmmmm, I like a good scapple. My dad makes good scrapple...

 

[TimRobinsin]

in other news:

Pink Buttons!

The more important issue is do you think the trout will see me with my pink button?

 

[dc410]

Exactly! Probably will be a good thing if one can belly crawl through a patch of blooming pink lady slippers or in position to do the chuck and duck cast from behind a flowereing pink dogwood tree. Life is good.

 

[JackM]

this thread is cracking me up!

if you just want to sit by and enjoy the benefits of the work of a few people that is fine. seriously, it's all good.

The most satisfying work I have done was a stream cleanup. You're welcome.

 

[McSneek]

TimRobinsin wrote:
I mean look at the impending ebola crisis we are facing right now. that shizz was right at our borders along with isis and people were ready to build a big friggin wall and shut down all flights. It got a great reaction from people. you can't blame conservation groups for playing that game. it's the way of American politics.

Have you been in the Fireball again?

What impending Ebola crisis? Isis is at our borders? Who said that? Are you trying to say that because things like the Ebola "crisis" get all sorts of overblown attention that things get done and that conservation organizations take the same approach. Like saying, "The arctic ice is melting and all the polar bears are dying!!" So conservation groups are BS'ing us to get things done and things really aren't as bad as they seem?

I have never, ever had scrapple.

 

[McSneek]

And just to go on the record, even though I think the PAF&BC should be soliciting and listening to angler input on more important issues than button colors, I would not be ashamed to wear a pink one if I was to buy one. However, since I favor not having to display your license, it would go against my principals to buy one of any color.

 

[BrookieChaser]

You're not the only one cracking up...

First off, I don't benefit at all from the McDonald's trout streams. I refuse to fish man made streams. I can find fish without a TU sign leading me to them.

Secondly, I may benefit from TU's research and lobbying. But remember I paid my dues. So guess what, I funded it.
As I see it the three people that disagreed with your views, and you kept responding to, were all involved in some other way that they didn't get straight recognition, or most likely didn't want it (because some people are fine quietly doing things without somebody patting them on the back, or needing to blow their own horn).
What you think may be helping you, could be hurting you when you put yourself as the face of TU in such a manner. You could be turning new members (remember those anonymous users at the top of this page... most people must first care about trout, especially wild trout, before they give money to become a TU member) off, or, more likely, turning existing members into non-members. Then you lose your lobbying power. Remember the true bargaining chip of TU?

 

[ebroesicke]

I don't always agree with PFBC. The PFBC does solicit public comment on many issues, not sure how much it plays into policy decisions, guessing it does.

http://fishandboat.com/reg398.htm

 

[allan_s]

Follow ebroesicke's link, if you would like to voice your opinion on the proposed regulation change to all stockings on some Class A streams. They are accepting comments on it now...

Not sure if anybody has strong feelings about this or not, so I thought I would point it out.

 

[poopdeck]

Chaz, first off nice article. Lets say that I show up at a TU monthly meeting and say I support gas drilling in pa because I believe in the increased jobs and revenues for the state not to mention affordable gas to heat my home. I like a toasty warm home as much as the next guy. I think we can work with the gas company, combine our forces and money and really save the trout fishing for future generations. I happen to believe we can have it all, jobs, trout, heat, and revenue. There has to be a balance for everything and we can achieve this balance. Problem is with the single issue crowd it's all about the trout even though everybody else in the room likes a big honkin truck, a job, increased revenue and a warm house.

Lets say I propose getting rid of all the artificial this and that only rules and lets work to get every stream, not just trout streams, up to snuff for all anglers including the dreaded bait fishermen. That would go over well wouldn't it. I happen to believe in that as well.

I am to totally opposed to stocking trout in warm water streams. Why not put warm water fish in the warm water streams and put the trout in the cold water streams. That might have the perceived negative effect of us city folk coming to your happy area of the state to fill our desire to trout fish.

I can see just on this little site the hatred some have for my views let alone at a TU meeting, riverkeepers luncheon, or other conservation group who are only concerned about one little sliver of life all the while enjoying all other slivers of life. It's an intolerant crowd and this cannot be argued.

I like pink. I may buy one.

 

[Maurice]

Mr Fish Tales,

Thank you for your input. Now consider the concept that a trout caught more than once and not killed is an extended use of immeasurable value. Until it dies it is a potential enjoyment for another angler. However once harvested it becomes a finite resource.

Why do you want to kill all the stocked trout Santa? (Picture Cindy Loo Hoo in bed with a trout shaped candycane while Mr Arway with a heart two sizes too small peers over her and slides it out of her clutched fists,) "You see little girl there are these other anglers who have not killed enough stocked trout and you have one here...so I will take this one here...and put it back there where they can kill it....no I have a better idea. I will send them here to take it with paste baits and worms, or eggs and minnozzles. Maggots or meal worms and stink bait bamboozles. "

For every trout I catch and release in open water I create an opportunity for the harvesters to fulfill their goals. And for every trout they harvest they eliminate an opportunity for me to fulfill my goals of catch and release.

So explain to me why when a resource is reused multiple times it has to be eliminated or deemed wasted. And why the contentious access issues in Pa on private property must constantly be challenged by regulation changes and manipulations that the landowner will likely disagree with? Its one thing to annoy us junkies who will buy a license regardless how you mistreat us...but why Santa must you annoy the landowners who graciously allow You to stock and Us to fish all over a few thousand fish that have had their value validated more than enough to prove their worth even if they succumb to the warm summer waters...or not.

Unless Santa your view is "the only good stocked trout is a dead stocked trout" if thats the case then just say it and be done with it...add it to the "we don't have gas money for fall stocking".

I for one would like to see U at the holiday table carving the roast beast. Once that heart grows four sizes too big.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Maurice is making some good points. Some of the same issues were discussed in the Vote for the Tulpehocken posts. I am confused by Fish Tales response here...it was really a non response to the topic or the issues brought up in this thread. I've never understood this whole idea that WE should be "educating" the "common man" so that he will vote for doing the right thing when it comes to environmental issues. I would prefer that PAFC officials listen to science and make the right decisions.

 

[TimRobinsin]

Soooo...anybody want to ride up to the stackhouse on dec 7 when the pfbc is meeting on these issues? Or am I being an intollerant, single issue, narrow minded, holier than thou, high horse riding b-tard?

God bless you guys. Some good points brought up on here. The beauty of all this is that there will never be an absolute answer to the resource management plan for any resource. We are all users with different needs. We fail when there is a lack of dialog betweens those users.

Online rants are great. Lets take it a step further shall we? I got 3 more seats in my jeep. We got all afternoon to fish, i'll even bring beer and you can ride the whole way up and tell me why im all sorts of dumb. Sound like fun!?

 

[pro4mance]

New trend, pink button fly fishing tattoo tramp stamp