PFBC on Stocking over Wild Fish

[krayfish2]

Knock down the dam on the Po and manage it as wild fishery. Plant some egg boxes there and below Raystown, release some of the cold water you're hoarding and we'll have 2 nice rivers. Come on PFBC...make it happen. Also, close from October 30 until April 1 for a few years to help reproduction. Clear tribs for spawning habitat.

 

[JackM]

"License sales" is like a pejorative on here. How come? If we substituted "recreational opportunities" as the primary motivation for stocking wherever, then we might understand why compromises to the "no-stocking on Class A" policy are sometimes made. Class A is really a low threshold. Those waters that are barely Class A are not the same quality of recreational fishery than those that exceed the minimum biomass threshold by 3 fold or more.

Class A waters are (almost) by definition, cold water, fertile fisheries year-round. When hatchery plants are introduced, they are more likely to survive and grow and hold over. Thus the low biomass Class A's are, in fact, enhanced, to many anglers who could not care less if the feisty trout they catch are introduced or stream-bred.

 

[afishinado]

JackM wrote:
"License sales" is like a pejorative on here. How come? If we substituted "recreational opportunities" as the primary motivation for stocking wherever, then we might understand why compromises to the "no-stocking on Class A" policy are sometimes made. Class A is really a low threshold. Those waters that are barely Class A are not the same quality of recreational fishery than those that exceed the minimum biomass threshold by 3 fold or more.

Class A waters are (almost) by definition, cold water, fertile fisheries year-round. When hatchery plants are introduced, they are more likely to survive and grow and hold over. Thus the low biomass Class A's are, in fact, enhanced, to many anglers who could not care less if the feisty trout they catch are introduced or stream-bred.

Okay, let's go with your buzzword...."recreational opportunities".....

First, the 7 stocked Class A streams listed have a well established wild trout population and are well beyond the minimum threshold. I've read one of them exceeds the threshold by 5X.

Second, almost without exception, stocking measured in both numbers of fish and frequency of stocking has be cut in ATWs in the past decade. This is due to rising costs and decreasing revenues (primarily license sales). If the stocked fish designated to he stocked the stoked Class A streams were allocated to neighboring ATWs that would increase "recreational opportunities." The ATWs would get more fish more frequently AND given the new stocking policy, we would also have a quality Class A wild trout fishery for anglers to wet a line.

The approach I would take if I were the FBC would be...Hey anglers, Stream A will be a designated wild trout fishery and Streams B, C, and D will be enhanced stocked fisheries for all anglers to enjoy. "Recreational opportunities" for everyone!

 

[JackM]

The marginal or poor waters most wild trout enthusiasts are OK with stocking cannot hold over or even sustain planted trout for more than a few weeks. Planted trout in fertile cool waters last longer and provide a longer-lived recreational opportunity....

 

[afishinado]

JackM wrote:
The marginal or poor waters most wild trout enthusiasts are OK with stocking cannot hold over or even sustain planted trout for more than a few weeks. Planted trout in fertile cool waters last longer and provide a longer-lived recreational opportunity....

A huge percentage of anglers pursue trout in the early season. And when the ATW's are fished out, what is there to prevent the remaining trout anglers from fishing the Class A stream? I fished nearly every one of them, and gawl dang, the fish are there to enjoyed be all anglers.

What did anyone lose? Anglers can fish for more fish for a longer time in the ATWs and still fish the Class A, which is teeming with fish. Don't get it?.....Where's the argument?

 

[Chaz]

mr7183 wrote:
Which stream do you all think is the most mismanaged (for a lack of a better word) in PA? Meaning the PFBC is stocking over wilds, doesn't have appropriate regulations, or, in your opinion, is missing the opportunity to create a world class tailwater.

I'm no expert, but I'd have to think we could have more Spring, Penns, or Delaware quality fisheries with thoughtful management by the PFBC.

Any stream that has a wild population of trout will benefit, some more then others but they will all benefit.

 

[Chaz]

ebroesicke wrote:
For the sake of discussion...You mentioned the Monocacy, which is my "home" stream. I fish it pretty regularly, and it is my limited observation that there are more wild fish in the stocked section than there are the Trophy Trout section, which is somewhat confirmed by the fact that it qualifies as Class A, even though it is not listed that way. How much better could it get if stocking was stopped? It can only support a finite number of fish. In my estimation, stocking in that section ( from Illick's Mill down) hasn't really hurt the fishing at all. I also believe that there are some studies out there indicating that stocking over wild fish does little to impact the wild population. Not sure about that though. I guess my ultimate point is that it is easy to point the finger at one issue ( stocking) when the reality may in-fact be much more complicated. Habitat, pollution, runoff, temperature etc, may or may not play as much or more of a role in trout populations.

As to your question, I think the Trophy section suffers from neglect, there is very little good habitat and a mill dam blocking fish movement. I'll bet that the trophy section gets better now that the dam is removed, just because the fish will move more, but it still won't hold as many trout as sections with better habitat.

 

[Chaz]

krayfish2 wrote:
Clear tribs for spawning habitat.

Krayfish, What do you mean by this?

 

[ebroesicke]

Chaz-

No dam was removed on the Trophy Trout section, and there is still a dam between where the removed one was and the Trophy section, so no that wont make a difference.....

And yes there are less trout in the Trophy Section which I presume is primarily due to habitat, which sort of speaks to my point that the issue is more complicated than just stopping the stocking to improve wild stocks.

 

[Chaz]

Wasn't the Illicks Mill Dam removed?

 

[ebroesicke]

No, Johnson Park where Musik Fest is.

 

[JeffK]

In the "you can't please everybody" vein, some people aren't happy the lower dam was removed on the Monocacy. It was the first dam up from the Lehigh and spawning browns would stack up there in the fall. Now that the dam is out they spread out and are tougher to find.

 

[ebroesicke]

yes, there was a group of people VERY upset because of that. Hopefully those browns will find a nice place to spawn.

 

[Oregon_Owl]

+2

That dam at Prryville adds up tp 6 degrees temperature on a hot day. A cold feed to the Lehigh R. would also benefit holdover fish in that river as well.

 

[mikesl]

Anybody know the purpose of the dam at parryville?
Would love to see that thing go.

Becker, or anyone... is there still a plan to install a fishladder there?

 

[Chaz]

JackM wrote:
"License sales" is like a pejorative on here. How come? If we substituted "recreational opportunities" as the primary motivation for stocking wherever, then we might understand why compromises to the "no-stocking on Class A" policy are sometimes made. Class A is really a low threshold. Those waters that are barely Class A are not the same quality of recreational fishery than those that exceed the minimum biomass threshold by 3 fold or more.

Class A waters are (almost) by definition, cold water, fertile fisheries year-round. When hatchery plants are introduced, they are more likely to survive and grow and hold over. Thus the low biomass Class A's are, in fact, enhanced, to many anglers who could not care less if the feisty trout they catch are introduced or stream-bred.

While that may be true Jack, the streams on the list are all over 3 or 4 times the biomass required for Class A and there is at least one freestone stream not on the list that has been Class A since the first surveys were taken and is far over the standard, but is kept off because it is in a heavy commercial area of the Poconos, that's just wrong. It is Class A headwaters to mouth yet is still stocked near the mouth and has never come up for approval.

 

[JackM]

Understood, Chaz. But, as I have said in the past these examples are a very low portion of such streams and it is worth keeping that in perspective. I would think in these situations, the popularity of the waters "justify" the compromise. Once again, it is consistent with PFBC purposes to enhance "recreational opportunities."

 

[lowkey]

Somehow we need to find a solution that is win, win, win. Wild trout win, anglers win and the pFBc wins. They are in a tight spot, trying to please everyone. Impossible really.

I think if we wild trout lovers could show that it really isn't that difficult to catch a wild trout versus a stockie and so much more satisfying an experience, we could persuade the average trout angler to give up on the hatchery fish and promote wild streams.

Another focus of course is stream restoration in farm country. I've started a goup on facebook that hopes to help farmers with meadow streams restore their pastures and improve their production in the process. The riparian buffers could feed livestock with trees like honey locust, chestnuts, mulberries and on and on. So much potential!

 

[vcregular]

The Perryville lowhead dam is owned by some town up that way for water supply - - or at least used for some other significant purpose. I don't see it coming out anytime soon. As Mike said in another post - it is easy to say - rip it out - but it takes two to tango. And in this case the owner does not want to dance. That said I feel better mgmt of the beltzville releaases could at least negate parts of the negative effects of that low head. By that - I mean higher min releases in the summer, and at a lower temp. And don't blow such cold water early on in the season. Save the cold. Dump the upper water from one of the seven selective withdrawl ports. For all I know some are prolly rusted shut. Regardless, that lake has a lot of cold water this time of year.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

The job of the Fish Commission is not to please everyone. Their job, according to their own mission statement, is to "protect, preserve, and enhance" our aquatic resources.