ryansheehan
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One man's passion is another man's wine.....or something like that.
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moon1284
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Around 2010 delaware stocked a lot of huge trout in white clay. I didn't see any complaints on this site then. In addition white clay is a very marginal creek totally dependent on stocking. I'd be very surprised if any of its tribs have natural reproduction. Very few trout holdover. Its also located in a very populated area. It is not a destination stream. It is the closest trout stream to the delaware memorial bridge, there will be jersey plates regardless.
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SteveG
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Spin guys with treble hooks trying to catch large opposable-thumbed fish on water that (as far as I'm aware) has no or limited wild trout value, is already stocked, and in some cases sees little usage... I have no argument to the program hahahahaha
As far as the decrying of treble hook mortality on stocked fish, spend an afternoon on Big Spring watching guys toss streamers to cover every square inch of water, and then have their catches hoisted out of the water for extended periods to capture just the right photo. We have more important battles to fight.
As far as the decrying of treble hook mortality on stocked fish, spend an afternoon on Big Spring watching guys toss streamers to cover every square inch of water, and then have their catches hoisted out of the water for extended periods to capture just the right photo. We have more important battles to fight.
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Mike
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Foxtrapper,
I would not have called it ( White Clay) a zoo. The DH area is 1.67 miles long. On the first Saturday (3/12/16) after the preseason stocking the angler counts ranged from 26-30 per count. Thirty anglers represents nearly a football field length of stream for each. On the first Saturday (4/30/16) after the inseason stocking the counts ranged from 6-10.
I would not have called it ( White Clay) a zoo. The DH area is 1.67 miles long. On the first Saturday (3/12/16) after the preseason stocking the angler counts ranged from 26-30 per count. Thirty anglers represents nearly a football field length of stream for each. On the first Saturday (4/30/16) after the inseason stocking the counts ranged from 6-10.
bigslackwater
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I wonder how the Keystone Select program will affect regular stocking. Will they save all the trophy sized fish for the program or will they still randomly stock a few larger trout here and there on our stocked streams?
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Mike
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Keystone represents about 4600 of the 30,000 brood fish to be stocked in 2017. A portion of the fish stocked in the new Keystone waters will come from a generally 25 brood trout per mile reduction in the stocking rate used in last year's original group of Keystone streams. This year the brood stocking rate in Keystone waters will range from 175 to 225 per mile.
ChesCoAngler
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I agree with this idea. I think it's great to get more people into fishing through programs like this, but I think it would be great for FBC to expand the special regulations on streams that can sustain trout populations AND stop stocking on them.
For example, they could extend the C&R section of Penns to Weikert and stock the trout they normally dump there in a nearby put and take only stream.
Hmmm... more stockers in the bait and lure water and more wild fish in the FFO water... zero impact on budget... hmmmm
HopBack
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I wouldn't consider white clay creek to be an urban creek at all. All lot of the stream flows through white clay creek preserve. the nearest. city is at least 20 miles away. There are a ton Of other stocked streams that are closer to urban areas such as Philadelphia and Delaware counties and New Jersey. Chester creek, valley creek, Ridley creek, east branch of the brandy wine, and wisahicon just to name a few, are all closer to these areas than white clay and receive much more pressure.
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moon1284
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Agreed, urban was wrong word but there is a very large population within a 30 mile radius.
D
DriftingDunn
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If you're inferring that part of Penns Creek is currently FFO then you would be incorrect.
J
jrcll
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I do like the program, but not so sure about Kinzua crk, its about 30mins from my camp , I`ve fished it frequently, but warm temps and low flows in the summer and fall, plus very little insect activity,....my question is why not the east branch of the clarion ? main channel of the lake is around 120 ft deep...bottom release.....good cold flow , water temp is rarely above 60 deg, good access from the dam all the way down to below Bendigo State Park
3
3oh4
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My two cents:
1: I lost it at "...grab them by the buggies."
2: Any stream that's labeled a "Delayed Harvest" means to me the trout are going to die in July anyway (hypothetically). When they slap that tag on a stream they are increasing fishing pressure when trout need pressured less. Translation: DH streams have been labeled by biologist as warmwater fisheries. No point in caring about the stream from a trout perspective (conservationist) at that point IMO.
1: I lost it at "...grab them by the buggies."
2: Any stream that's labeled a "Delayed Harvest" means to me the trout are going to die in July anyway (hypothetically). When they slap that tag on a stream they are increasing fishing pressure when trout need pressured less. Translation: DH streams have been labeled by biologist as warmwater fisheries. No point in caring about the stream from a trout perspective (conservationist) at that point IMO.
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troutbert
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I see nothing wrong with stocking large trout in the stockies special regs areas.
But the length of those regs areas should be lengthened to accommodate the increased number of anglers, to avoid over-crowding.
But the length of those regs areas should be lengthened to accommodate the increased number of anglers, to avoid over-crowding.
C
CRB
Well-known member
+1
ryansheehan
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Haven't fished either place but from your description Clarion should be a wild trout fishery while the Kinzua sounds like a perfect DH.
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blkpowder
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EXACTLY! I don't care for it either
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blkpowder
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Agree,That is exactly what happened to my home water In Ligonier,the Loyalhanna. For the first three weeks,you couldn’t even get near it. Combat fishing at it’s finest. Guys crossing lines,anglers wading on top of the fish and profanity’s flying. Yeah,lets take our kids and expose them to this. Not! The older retiree’s got chased away. I know after reading reports on this site,I know others on here know these gentlemen. Ron R.,Cliff S.,Frank S.,Don W. If any of you fished this project,Don was the gentleman with the tan boonie hat and homemade wading staff and at age 82,still fishing midges on the surface. Amazing! But these gentlemen and a few others have life time fishing license so I guess it doesn’t matter they got chased away. The PFBC didn’t lose anything. Lost was what this project was put in place for. To have a more pleasurable day away from the crowds.Unlike some other streams in this state, the PFBC didn’t say ok,starting at foot bridge so and so,to the mouth of fast water run,this is now a DHALO. It was the late Russ Mason that got this all put in place. When he first contacted the PFBC about a project in this section,he was denied. They said it would not hold trout over. So Ed Shenk granted him to start a new TU chapter. With his new recruits to the Forbes Trail and the help of many volunteers from local sportsmen’s clubs and with an watchful eye from the DEP and the PFBC,the project was completed! Russ wanted to make this an FFO. The PFBC said no because of its geographic location. So this is how the project on the Loyalhanna came about. I aslo know the PFBC have gotten more complaints from the Ligonier area than any others that they chose for a Keystone Select and this is why. For all those that are still around that dumped sweat and blood to make this project,they feel they got pizzed on! I know many anglers on this site will say the Loyalhanna is not a great stream and I will agree. There are better waters. But let us not forget, lots of anglers because of work,family commitments ect. This is all they have. And they don’t like what they have now.
pcray1231
Well-known member
Mike, for the record, 26-30 anglers over 1.67 miles is very much a zoo in my book. Good Lord. It may be a football field per angler, but we both know it doesn't work like that. What % of that length is actually decent holding water that guys are fishing? On a stream of that size I can easily cover 1.67 miles in a day of fishing myself. Basically it means someone is already at each spot I'd think about stopping and wetting a line. I would view such a situation to be combat fishing. Moving around is out. You go early to claim a decent spot, then you gotta grow roots to hold it. Those with primo spots do well. And those without are just hanging on the periphery hoping to get an opening to squeeze in somewhere. If a guy leaves, the race is on, with about 3 others hussling to be first to take it over, all the while trying not to make it "too obvious" that they are racing each other.
Anyway, that's just a statement, not meant to be an opinion on policy. I won't say that all zoos are to be strictly avoided as a matter of policy. It's not my favorite scene, but I'll take part on occasion, and if anglers are taking part it means they value the experience. I can always go elsewhere. And those zoos do keep pressure off elsewhere.
Anyway, that's just a statement, not meant to be an opinion on policy. I won't say that all zoos are to be strictly avoided as a matter of policy. It's not my favorite scene, but I'll take part on occasion, and if anglers are taking part it means they value the experience. I can always go elsewhere. And those zoos do keep pressure off elsewhere.
724flyfishing
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I'm from the area too. I hate what they did with Loyalhanna. I made a report/post about it last year after I witnessed the craziness first hand and got accused of "being mad people are fishing my honey hole", "it's just stocked fish", and I forget what other nonsense. Like you said, in our corner of the state it's almost as good as it gets unless you want to fish for natives. That used to be a nice, quiet place to catch a couple fish most months out of the year. Now it's a mess with obnoxious people and litter and while it never had big hatches or wild trout, it always held some fish over. I stopped by once late last summer and didn't see a trout holding anywhere.
The Yough outflow to the Confluence bridge would of been a better choice for this. It's already a zoo to begin with and they would of got more miles out of the fish from the cold water discharge.
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blkpowder
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People telling you ,you are just mad for losing a honey hole on the Loyalhanna is the reason for your complaint? What? Exactly 724flyfishing,they are stocked fish! That’s why I can’t believe some anglers make a big deal about a over stuffed Purina fish chow bug-eyed stocked fish. All that matters to me when I fly fish stocked waters is that one,I have a peaceful and enjoyable day and have fish to fish over. Period! Doesn’t matter what size because hey. Ten inches or twenty inches,If the PFBC doesn’t stock these waters,you have no fish! I wish,oh how I wished I went and purchased a new video camera and recorded some of the crap I seen that came in with this Keystone Select. Cause just to put it in print, I would get the same response as you or a plain BS! This would have been a big hit on YouTube. I’m 62 yrs old and I just still shake my head and say really, at some of the stunts anglers pull to catch a fish. It’s obvious you understand what you lost as many others who said they sent in a complaint to the PFBC. Again,we lost what this project was first created for. A PEACEFUL and ENJOYABLE day on the water. Not to bring back Barnum and Bailey back under a different name!
