PFBC 2020 Stocking Plan

[TimMurphy]

Mike wrote:
If anti-stocking of adult trout was the general consensus among fly anglers, stocked C&R FFO areas would be a waste of fish. To a great extent that would also be the case for DHALO areas since angler use data showed that about 70 percent of the anglers were fly anglers.

Dear Mike,

I'm speaking only for myself here.

I am 100% in favor of stocking trout. Stocked trout gave me my first exposure to "real" fish that I read about in Outdoor Life, and Field and Stream, and Sports Afield, instead of just the sunnies and crappies and occasional bass I had at my disposal as a kid growing up in the wilds of Lower Bucks County PA. All of them were wild BTW.

I appreciate and understand the concept of stocking trout. I think it is important to provide opportunities to young anglers, and to those anglers who lack the ability for whatever reason to travel in pursuit of fishing opportunities.

What I don't like is stocking over self sustaining populations of trout, as is often done on some Class A streams and many Class B streams.

Put the trout where they will better serve the angling public and leave the self-sustaining streams alone.

If that means ditching tackle restrictions and making all Class A and B streams all tackle no harvest, or all tackle with harvest restrictions, I'll go with you to Harrisburg to argue that in front of the Fish and Boat Commission, and the PA General Assembly.

Hell, I'll even buy you lunch as many times as it needed to get the job done! I'll even invite to my house for dinner! I'll do whatever it takes.

But please, we need to stop the idea that all trout come from trucks. Look how many new Class A and B streams were discovered by the surveys done in the fracking zones? You even found cricks that I was the only person I ever knew fished!

Put and take fish belong where they will most likely be put and taken.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[silverfox]

I think they should start experimenting with glow in the dark trout. You've probably seen those little danios in the pet store that glow. Why not glow in the dark trout? Make some green ones, blue ones, magenta ones, purple ones. I bet it would be a hit! Grow em huge on steroids and high fat content pellets and spread them babies far n wide!

Why stop there? How about getting really crazy with some genetic engineering and start mixing up some true oddities for the angling public to "enjoy". Maybe a trout x pike hybrid? How about a brown x rainbow concoction? THEN, take the hybrids AND inject the glow in the dark dye into em! That would really drum up some license sales!

 

[timbow]

TimMurphy wrote:

Mike wrote:
If anti-stocking of adult trout was the general consensus among fly anglers, stocked C&R FFO areas would be a waste of fish. To a great extent that would also be the case for DHALO areas since angler use data showed that about 70 percent of the anglers were fly anglers.

Dear Mike,

I'm speaking only for myself here.

I am 100% in favor of stocking trout. Stocked trout gave me my first exposure to "real" fish that I read about in Outdoor Life, and Field and Stream, and Sports Afield, instead of just the sunnies and crappies and occasional bass I had at my disposal as a kid growing up in the wilds of Lower Bucks County PA. All of them were wild BTW.

I appreciate and understand the concept of stocking trout. I think it is important to provide opportunities to young anglers, and to those anglers who lack the ability for whatever reason to travel in pursuit of fishing opportunities.

What I don't like is stocking over self sustaining populations of trout, as is often done on some Class A streams and many Class B streams.

Put the trout where they will better serve the angling public and leave the self-sustaining streams alone.

If that means ditching tackle restrictions and making all Class A and B streams all tackle no harvest, or all tackle with harvest restrictions, I'll go with you to Harrisburg to argue that in front of the Fish and Boat Commission, and the PA General Assembly.

Hell, I'll even buy you lunch as many times as it needed to get the job done! I'll even invite to my house for dinner! I'll do whatever it takes.

But please, we need to stop the idea that all trout come from trucks. Look how many new Class A and B streams were discovered by the surveys done in the fracking zones? You even found cricks that I was the only person I ever knew fished!

Put and take fish belong where they will most likely be put and taken.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Well said! For the PFBC to encourage the idea that trophies come from trucks is NOT what I want to hear from them.

 

[PennKev]

Mike wrote:
For some, opportunities are limited and stocked trout fishing is their primary or only interest as an angler.

There are many states that are almost entirely without trout and all their poor crippled kids are getting along just fine fishing for everything else.

 

[timbow]

As a side note, I just starting watching Patagonia's latest film, Artifishal, today. Highly recommend it if you are interested in seeing the effects hatcheries have had on wild salmon/steelhead populations in the PNW.

 

[troutbert]

TimMurphy wrote:

I appreciate and understand the concept of stocking trout. I think it is important to provide opportunities to young anglers, and to those anglers who lack the ability for whatever reason to travel in pursuit of fishing opportunities.

What I don't like is stocking over self sustaining populations of trout, as is often done on some Class A streams and many Class B streams.

Put the trout where they will better serve the angling public and leave the self-sustaining streams alone.

Agreed. And what I particularly don't like is stocking over native brook trout, which is still widespread by the PFBC and the coop hatcheries.

The negative effects of stocking over native brook trout are severe. This is not theoretical. I've seen it numerous times.

 

[HopBack]

Some of you guys clearly don't live in the southeastern, southwestern, or northwestern parts of the state where streams are completely dependent on hatchery raised fish.

I don't fish for stocked trout if I can help it but I grew up fishing in the southeastern part of the state and for the longest time didn't even realize that wild trout existed save from a few 6 inch "native" browns I caught out of the EB Brandywine. Not everyone has the opportunity or means to drive 3 hours to central PA for some quality wild trout fishing. As I got older and got a decent job I was able to take some trips to places like Penns, Little J, Spring and other unmentionable gems in the region. Not everyone has this luxury.

I know I know, I can fish a few of the small wild trout streams around Lancaster county a couple of times a year but its not sustainable for an entire region to rely on the Donegal, Conowingo Creek and Hammer creek. Those are the largest wild trout streams in the county and the eastern side has none.

Can you imagine if they stopped stocking pine creek, The tully, The Lehigh, the Yough, Lake Erie Steelhead! cause that's what you are asking for when you say PA should eliminate stocking.

 

[PennKev]

HopBack wrote:
Some of you guys clearly don't live in the southeastern, southwestern, or northwestern parts of the state where streams are completely dependent on hatchery raised fish.

I don't fish for stocked trout if I can help it but I grew up fishing in the southeastern part of the state and for the longest time didn't even realize that wild trout existed save from a few 6 inch "native" browns I caught out of the EB Brandywine. Not everyone has the opportunity or means to drive 3 hours to central PA for some quality wild trout fishing. As I got older and got a decent job I was able to take some trips to places like Penns, Little J, Spring and other unmentionable gems in the region. Not everyone has this luxury.

I know I know, I can fish a few of the small wild trout streams around Lancaster county a couple of times a year but its not sustainable for an entire region to rely on the Donegal, Conowingo Creek and Hammer creek. Those are the largest wild trout streams in the county and the eastern side has none.

Can you imagine if they stopped stocking pine creek, The tully, The Lehigh, the Yough, Lake Erie Steelhead! cause that's what you are asking for when you say PA should eliminate stocking.

No one is advocating ceasing stocking where it is needed for a trout fishery. I think all we want is a true wild trout first approach by the PAFBC. When they come out and claim that stocking giant hatchery fish will provide an opportunity for a fish of a lifetime, that sends a very different message than what most wild trout advocates want to hear. If the director said, "We want PA to be a destination for wild trout enthusiasts," everyone here would be singing a different tune.

You can stock trout and also be good stewards of wild trout. The PAFBC struggles with this.

 

[troutbert]

HopBack wrote:


Can you imagine if they stopped stocking pine creek, The tully, The Lehigh, the Yough, Lake Erie Steelhead! cause that's what you are asking for when you say PA should eliminate stocking.

Few on here have advocated ending stocking.

I certainly haven't.

It's about choices of WHERE they are stocked.

Where to stock 300 hatchery trout:

Choice 1. Stock them in a small forested stream with a population of native brook trout and wild browns.

Choice 2. Stock them in Pine Creek.

I think Choice 2 is the better choice.

Some people think Choice 1 is better, but it's hard to see how they can justify that choice.

 

[maxima12]

I ride one side, Fish Commission, Game Commission, ride of 50 years.

I Like it. "THANK YOU". What a ride!

IF YOU OMLY KNEW?

 

[troutbert]

maxima12 wrote:

I ride one side, Fish Commission, Game Commission, ride of 50 years.

I Like it. "THANK YOU". What a ride!

My comments were not anti-Fish Commission.

The Fish Commission has ended stocking over brook trout on many streams and reduced it on many others. I support these actions, and will continue supporting them.

 

[rrt]

Stocking trout over viable populations of wild trout is reprehensible. I think the PFBC does a pretty good job, considering the social ramifications it sometimes encounters. When they began to allow stocking hatchery trout in Young Woman's Creek a number of years ago, it was local pressure that pretty much forced the issue. It was a shame. However, I think this is an exception to the usual.

Steams that cannot sustain wild trout or where stream conditions prevent successful reproduction are the ones that need to be stocked to provide fishing, IMO.

It is not always a simple matter.

 

[afishinado]

Another article about stocking trout >

https://www.inquirer.com/science/climate/pennsylvania-fishing-golden-rainbow-trout-anglers-philadelphia-20191104.html?fbclid=IwAR1IXwnfUgL0INvj09lCt4N02UcKlHKLcUZ7HsypqCeD15UXK8Ql3TAruMM

 

[Mike]

PennKev,
Please square your comment in #24 with your first sentence in #28. Note as well that I never referred to children; I wes thinking of licensed anglers, primarily adults.

 

[tomgamber]

PennKev wrote:
I think all we want is a true wild trout first approach by the PAFBC.

i don;t believe that for a second. I think the vast majority want fish to catch. I don;t think they care whether they are wild, stocked or fall from the heavens by god. i think this is proven every April.

 

[troutbert]

The PFBC hatcheries only have the capacity to produce X amount of trout.

The more trout are stocked over wild trout, the less trout available for stocking Pine, Kettle, Loyalsock, First Fork, Tulpehocken, Youghiogheny, French Cr, Neshannock Cr, Ridley Cr, West Br Octoraro, Laurel Hill Cr, Bushkill Cr, Lehigh River, Tobyhanna Cr...you get the picture.

Is it a better use of hatchery trout to stock them over native brook trout than to stock them in the types of streams listed above?

 

[FishTales]

Well it’s been a year since I retired from the agency so I guess I fulfilled my promise of unplugging for a year. Sitting at camp in Forest County enjoying the warmth of a wood fire ???? and thought I would weigh in on this discussion. First question that needs to be asked is how much money does the PFBC spend on hatchery trout vs wild trout and what is the cost to creel (aka ROI) for each program? The answer is obvious but never advertised. It still amazes me that sportsmen’s funds continue to be spent on a stocked trout program that does not recruit or reactivate anglers. It may retain them only because there are more trout for less anglers which make the senior anglers and those who have the time to fish for stocked trout very happy and also very angry when someone threatens to reduce stocking. Despite repeatedly providing studies that show there has never been a correlation between stocking and license sales, there is a pervasive attitude by some Board members and staff that they can solve the decline of license sales by stocking more trout. Hogwash.

How about this. We have a huge brown trout that was raised at our Bellefonte hatchery that died of old age and is mounted and displayed on the wall at our WCO Stackhouse training school at Fisherman’s Paradise Why don’t we raise the world record brook, brown, rainbow and golden trout and stock them in PA for someone to catch. Now that would be a fish of a lifetime. Right?

Time to get back to enjoying the wood stove. Think about it.

 

[jifigz]

I say stock less trout, let our central PA limestone influenced streams thrive and the wild fish grow big. It isn't far-fetched. Let's stop this whole "we aren't Montana" sentiment because our wild brown trout waters are truly amazing for the Eastern U.S.

 

[MD_Gene]

I thought that this was a very civil discussion of the stocking topic.

Thanks for posting Afishinado.

Thanks for the dissension timbow.

Outsider thanks to you too.

TimMurphy, I remember you telling me at a jam in the early 2000's that you tended to **** people off. I thought your post here was great.

Thanks to the forum group for good exchange of ideas.

 

[timbow]

How about this. We have a huge brown trout that was raised at our Bellefonte hatchery that died of old age and is mounted and displayed on the wall at our WCO Stackhouse training school at Fisherman’s Paradise Why don’t we raise the world record brook, brown, rainbow and golden trout and stock them in PA for someone to catch. Now that would be a fish of a lifetime. Right?

Time to get back to enjoying the wood stove. Think about it.

Kinda like the state record brown trout that was raised at Tylersville and escaped only to be caught by the "Legend" himself.