Pennsylvania's Biggest Fishery Blunders

[sixfootfenwick]

This is not meant to defend the PFBC, but are there shad runs still existing anywhere on the East Coast that are better than PA? Maybe the Connecticut? Down south?

Because of my own location, I just instinctively compare the Susky and Delaware to the Hudson, which has a shad history that is a bit of a horror story.

This, of course, wouldn't mean the PFBC couldn't manage the fishery better (I don't have that expertise); I'm more just curious if the work to handle PA's shad is an instance of grasping the last threads of another species we've pummeled across the board.

The response from AI on a quick Google search says this:

The Delaware River, specifically areas like Hancock, NY, Trenton, NJ, Easton, PA, and the Centre Bridge-Stockton Bridge, is known for having some of the best American shad runs in the United States.
I don't know if that just means historically or today .
It later notes:


Shad Runs in the United States:

• Delaware River:
  • The Delaware River, which flows through New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Delaware, is a well-known location for American shad fishing.
    
    
  • You can find these fish along roughly 300 miles of the river.
    
    
  • Some hot spots include Hancock, NY, Trenton, NJ, Easton, PA, and the Centre Bridge-Stockton Bridge connecting New Jersey to Pennsylvania.
    
    
  • Angling for shad on the Delaware usually begins around the end of March as the water warms to 50° F, with the population migrating upstream.
    
    
  • Shad can be caught all the way upriver to the New York state line and beyond through the end of May and into June.
  • The Susquehanna River also has a history with shad runs, with millions of migratory shad flooding the river from the Atlantic Ocean to reproduce.
    
    
  • On the Lower Susquehanna River, shad runs are normally between mid-April and June.
• Susquehanna River:
  • The Susquehanna River also has a history with shad runs, with millions of migratory shad flooding the river from the Atlantic Ocean to reproduce.
    
    
  • On the Lower Susquehanna River, shad runs are normally between mid-April and June.

• Other Notable Locations
  • California: The Sacramento River provides the best-known shad water in the state, and is ideally suited to spin fishing.
  • Oregon: Most of Oregon's coastal rivers have shad runs, but some standouts include the area downstream from the Bonneville Dam.
    
    
  • Washington: The Columbia River delineates the border with Oregon, so some of Washington's best shad fishing is to be had in the Bonneville Dam area.
    
    
  • South Carolina: Shad fishing has become a very popular pastime along Berkeley County's Tail Race Canal below the Pinopolis Lock and Dam.
    
    
  • Virginia: The hickory and American shad runs are in their early stages, but some fish are being taken in Chesapeake Bay tributaries.
    
    
  • Maryland: Shad fishing is extremely popular between Conowingo dam and the bay, as well as on Deer Creek and the Octoraro.

How accurate this is I don't know. I also don't know about South Carolina that it lists. But considering that information, for the East Coast, I'd say likely we have the best, sadly.
IMO, yes, it is grasping at the last threads of a pummeled species. I don't fault the PFBC at all, maybe it could be managed better but these obstacles are great. I'm thankful they try to put any effort in at all. At least there is still something.

 

[hooker-of-men]

The response from AI on a quick Google search says this:

The Delaware River, specifically areas like Hancock, NY, Trenton, NJ, Easton, PA, and the Centre Bridge-Stockton Bridge, is known for having some of the best American shad runs in the United States.
I don't know if that just means historically or today .
It later notes:


Shad Runs in the United States:

• Delaware River:
  • The Delaware River, which flows through New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Delaware, is a well-known location for American shad fishing.
    
    
  • You can find these fish along roughly 300 miles of the river.
    
    
  • Some hot spots include Hancock, NY, Trenton, NJ, Easton, PA, and the Centre Bridge-Stockton Bridge connecting New Jersey to Pennsylvania.
    
    
  • Angling for shad on the Delaware usually begins around the end of March as the water warms to 50° F, with the population migrating upstream.
    
    
  • Shad can be caught all the way upriver to the New York state line and beyond through the end of May and into June.
  • The Susquehanna River also has a history with shad runs, with millions of migratory shad flooding the river from the Atlantic Ocean to reproduce.
    
    
  • On the Lower Susquehanna River, shad runs are normally between mid-April and June.
• Susquehanna River:
  • The Susquehanna River also has a history with shad runs, with millions of migratory shad flooding the river from the Atlantic Ocean to reproduce.
    
    
  • On the Lower Susquehanna River, shad runs are normally between mid-April and June.

• Other Notable Locations
  • California: The Sacramento River provides the best-known shad water in the state, and is ideally suited to spin fishing.
  • Oregon: Most of Oregon's coastal rivers have shad runs, but some standouts include the area downstream from the Bonneville Dam.
    
    
  • Washington: The Columbia River delineates the border with Oregon, so some of Washington's best shad fishing is to be had in the Bonneville Dam area.
    
    
  • South Carolina: Shad fishing has become a very popular pastime along Berkeley County's Tail Race Canal below the Pinopolis Lock and Dam.
    
    
  • Virginia: The hickory and American shad runs are in their early stages, but some fish are being taken in Chesapeake Bay tributaries.
    
    
  • Maryland: Shad fishing is extremely popular between Conowingo dam and the bay, as well as on Deer Creek and the Octoraro.

How accurate this is I don't know. I also don't know about South Carolina that it lists. But considering that information, for the East Coast, I'd say likely we have the best, sadly.
IMO, yes, it is grasping at the last straws of a pummeled species. I don't fault the PFBC at all, maybe it could be managed better but these obstacles are great. I'm thankful they try to put any effort in at all. At least there is still something.

I took the Google / AI approach too, but I quickly discounted the results as it was telling me the best place in my area to fish for shad is the Hudson near Glens Falls, NY. That would be both above many dams and, I believe, illegal 😂

 

[dudemanspecial]

I am not disputing your post, but please don't accept what Google AI says as gospel. I have found that most of the time it contains at least one bit of incorrect information in its answers, and it is disheartening that our generations currently on this planet are being used as guinea pigs for it because we are so gullible that we are willing to accept what it says.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I am not disputing your post, but please don't accept what Google AI says as gospel. I have found that most of the time it contains at least one bit of incorrect information in its answers, and it is disheartening that our generations currently on this planet are being used as guinea pigs for it because we are so gullible that we are willing to accept what it says.

Yeah I've seen lots of errors in it for other things I've searched. It's why I've prefaced it by saying it came from it and I don't know how accurate it is.

I'd say it's probably likely though, PA has the best shad runs on the east Coast, and frankly I hope I'm wrong.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I took the Google / AI approach too, but I quickly discounted the results as it was telling me the best place in my area to fish for shad is the Hudson near Glens Falls, NY. That would be both above many dams and, I believe, illegal 😂

At least your away from the crowds

 

[dudemanspecial]

Yeah I've seen lots of errors in it for other things I've searched. It's why I've prefaced it by saying it came from it and I don't know how accurate it is.

I'd say it's probably likely though, PA has the best shad runs on the east Coast, and frankly I hope I'm wrong.

I am by no means an expert, but from various things I have read PA has one of the best as far as size of fish per number of fish. I believe that most of the shad that is harvested for commercial purposes come from North Carolina, I don't know if that is a regulation thing or a numbers thing though.

 

[rustbeltwilds]

Growing up in ct in the 70s i remember shad runs up the ct river to the holyoke dam in massachussetts...not sure if its still even a thing...they even had on radio station wtic out of hartford giving the daily count at the station. Bucks..roes ...lol good times.

 

[Tabasco-Joe]

Neat history here, I could argue blunder, but smallmouth are so popular and prolific I won't convince anyone.

If you have never read how smallmouth came to be in Eastern Pennsylvania, here is a short story.

The Origin Of Smallmouth Story - Woods & Waters Magazine

A long time ago I read a story about the early French settler’s first discovery of smallmouth bass. They were intrigued by the tenacity and fight of this

woodsandwatersmagazine.com

Much of central PA had brook trout restored, and brown trout planted through areas just devastated by lumbering in the early 1900s. My grandfather helped plant trout from such railcars in Penns, White Deer, Spring, and Fishing Creek around 1905. (In some cases, wagons were used for the last couple miles.) My other grandfather had pictures of the mountains in western Union County still almost bald around 1920. Just shrubs with an occasional large pine.

 

[Tabasco-Joe]

Growing up in ct in the 70s i remember shad runs up the ct river to the holyoke dam in massachussetts...not sure if its still even a thing...they even had on radio station wtic out of hartford giving the daily count at the station. Bucks..roes ...lol good times.

II remember shad fishing on the Delaware being popular back in the 60s and 70s. I also remember seeing large runs traveling upstream as I boated the Delaware in the Frenchtown area. I don't know how the runs compare to today but other than temperature I would think the water quality is much better.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Much of central PA had brook trout restored, and brown trout planted through areas just devastated by lumbering in the early 1900s. My grandfather helped plant trout from such railcars in Penns, White Deer, Spring, and Fishing Creek around 1905. (In some cases, wagons were used for the last couple miles.) My other grandfather had pictures of the mountains in western Union County still almost bald around 1920. Just shrubs with an occasional large pine.

It is hard to grasp when just thinking about it, how it must have been with all the trees gone. It's hard to think it's even possible.

 

[Bamboozle]

I'll play devil's advocate and give the PFBC kudos for resisting the efforts by New Jersey DEP/Division of Fish, Game & Wildlife/Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries and others back in the early 1980's to attempt to create a Pacific salmon run in the Delaware River.

I still have my copy of NJ DEP's 300 page feasibility study, "Anadromous Salmonids in the Delaware River" published in 1983 which painted a VERY rosy picture, mostly focused on potential revenue generated from angler's.

If that "stocking" happened, you might night not have the shad runs we have today and possibly not even the great trout fishery on the upper Delaware.

However, if you would rather not drive to Pulaski or have native shad runs and what the upper Delaware offers for trout anglers...

Feel free to consider PFBC opposition to this plan as a blunder... 😉

 

[Tabasco-Joe]

It is hard to grasp when just thinking about it, how it must have been with all the trees gone. It's hard to think it's even possible.

Even before the heavy lumbering on the mountains, the valleys were cleared. When you travel up many of the farmed valleys in PA remember these valleys were once a mix of forest and meadows with tree lined waterways. Largely chestnut. Of which many barns and large farmhouses were built.

 

[wildtrout2]

Much of central PA had brook trout restored, and brown trout planted through areas just devastated by lumbering in the early 1900s. My grandfather helped plant trout from such railcars in Penns, White Deer, Spring, and Fishing Creek around 1905. (In some cases, wagons were used for the last couple miles.) My other grandfather had pictures of the mountains in western Union County still almost bald around 1920. Just shrubs with an occasional large pine.

That's very cool hearing that your grandfathers helped with that initiative.

 

[troutbert]

Much of central PA had brook trout restored, and brown trout planted through areas just devastated by lumbering in the early 1900s. My grandfather helped plant trout from such railcars in Penns, White Deer, Spring, and Fishing Creek around 1905. (In some cases, wagons were used for the last couple miles.) My other grandfather had pictures of the mountains in western Union County still almost bald around 1920. Just shrubs with an occasional large pine.

I don't think the brook trout were ever wiped out. Their numbers and range were greatly reduced, and still are. But they never disappeared.

 

[Bamboozle]

Much of central PA had brook trout restored, and brown trout planted through areas just devastated by lumbering in the early 1900s. My grandfather helped plant trout from such railcars in Penns, White Deer, Spring, and Fishing Creek around 1905. (In some cases, wagons were used for the last couple miles.) My other grandfather had pictures of the mountains in western Union County still almost bald around 1920. Just shrubs with an occasional large pine.

BTW - A great book on the logging operations is:

"Wood Hicks and Bark Peelers: A Visual History of Pennsylvania’s Railroad Lumbering Communities; The Photographic Legacy of William T. Clarke" by Ronald E. Ostman (Author), Harry Littell (Author), Linda A. Ries (Introduction)

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I don't think the brook trout were ever wiped out. Their numbers and range were greatly reduced, and still are. But they never disappeared.

I don't either. It would have taken time but the chances are they would have repopulated more than they did.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I'll play devil's advocate and give the PFBC kudos for resisting the efforts by New Jersey DEP/Division of Fish, Game & Wildlife/Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries and others back in the early 1980's to attempt to create a Pacific salmon run in the Delaware River.

I still have my copy of NJ DEP's 300 page feasibility study, "Anadromous Salmonids in the Delaware River" published in 1983 which painted a VERY rosy picture, mostly focused on potential revenue generated from angler's.

If that "stocking" happened, you might night not have the shad runs we have today and possibly not even the great trout fishery on the upper Delaware.

However, if you would rather not drive to Pulaski or have native shad runs and what the upper Delaware offers for trout anglers...

Feel free to consider PFBC opposition to this plan as a blunder... 😉

I'm glad the resisted that and kind of surprised actually. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Nocktavius]

Both TU and PFBC have done their share of damage to our waterways. The difference is I am compelled by law to pay money to PFBC while TU adopts the PBS/NPR model of trying to guilt you into giving them money.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Both TU and PFBC have done their share of damage to our waterways. The difference is I am compelled by law to pay money to PFBC while TU adopts the PBS/NPR model of trying to guilt you into giving them money.

I prefer the second model, I'm not easily guilted so there are many years I keep the small note pad and everything else goes in the trash 😂

 

[Bamboozle]

I'm glad the resisted that and kind of surprised actually. Thank you for sharing!

If I recall correctly, New York State DEP was opposed as well as TU. Back in the day there was a big pow-wow I attended in East Stroudsburg with the president of my TU chapter with representation from the PFBC, and NJ & NY DEP.

People who are unaware don't realize how different things would be on the Delaware if that or the Tocks Island Dam project would have ever happened...