PA Trout Parks?

Don't even gotta do that Andy. Just add it to the new and improved list of class a's allowed to be stocked.

PFBC is super awesome like that!
 
We did this already at Spring Creek in the 1950s. It was called Fishermen's Paradise and attracted hordes of anglers. It had a "check in/weigh in" station and they blew a horn at dusk when everybody had to get off the stream. You were only allowed to go 5 times a year - fly fishing only w/barbless hooks. The limit was one trout-a-day, 14-inches or larger. It even had a woman's stretch in a braid in the back.

I went there several times as a boy. It was fun at first, but fishing elbow to elbow was the norm in the lower, more heavily stocked section and that wasn't my thing, even then. So I would go up into the woods and catch smaller but decent sized browns. I didn't know it at the time, but they were probably wild fish. It closed after a while even though it was so popular. I quit fishing there after I got old enough to drive to more remote streams.

I think this is just another really dumb idea to enhance license sales. Some of the Commissioners are of the opinion that (trout) fishing should be managed like a business. In my 'not-so-humble opinion' the PFBC is not a business and shouldn't be operated as if it were! In its own words: "The mission of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission is to protect, conserve, and enhance the Commonwealth’s aquatic resources..." I can only imagine how Ralph Abele must be churning in his grave.

Now I must quit writing and allow my blood pressure to go back down.

 
I am for this.

its very common in Europe and brings a lot of people into fishing and fly fishing - myself included. and my Dad, and pretty much every wild trout fisherman i've met in the UK apart from the very lucky ones.

to be successful it needs to be a) in a currently stocked water with plenty of parking, toilets and rest facilities, and b) close to an urban centre - if possible accessible by bus or train, trolley etc.

They have one in the centre of Boston - Jamaica Pond - which has all the above, including boats to rent.

There are four or five in urban London, and in a number of cities and towns in CT and NH.

visit any of them and you'll see a lot of working class folks and their families, of all ages and races fishing with bait, lures or flies.

many of these folks will turn to fly fishing and wild trout as they get older or improve their economic situation, and some of them will stick with the Trout Parks and continue to target and catch large fish and go on to be very very good anglers - in Europe, many competition anglers start this way.

if fly fishing is no longer to be the realm of mainly middle aged (and older) white guys, these trout parks are one way forward.

cheers

Mark.



 
Sounds like the Jordan is a perfect candidate! Have at it! lol
 
I am for this. its very common in Europe and brings a lot of people into fishing and fly fishing - myself included. and my Dad, and pretty much every wild trout fisherman i've met in the UK apart from the very lucky ones. to be successful it needs to be a) in a currently stocked water with plenty of parking, toilets and rest facilities, and b) close to an urban centre - if possible accessible by bus or train, trolley etc. They have one in the centre of Boston - Jamaica Pond - which has all the above, including boats to rent. There are four or five in urban London, and in a number of cities and towns in CT and NH. visit any of them and you'll see a lot of working class folks and their families, of all ages and races fishing with bait, lures or flies. many of these folks will turn to fly fishing and wild trout as they get older or improve their economic situation, and some of them will stick with the Trout Parks and continue to target and catch large fish and go on to be very very good anglers - in Europe, many competition anglers start this way. if fly fishing is no longer to be the realm of mainly middle aged (and older) white guys, these trout parks are one way forward. cheers Mark.
Click to expand...

I put my money on the little Lehigh!

It sounds great in theory but everyone knows the reason we have the exploitation of our resources today by anglers, is because of the entitlement they created yesterday.
We should be turning away from it, not continuing to enable it and let it grow.
 
KenU wrote:
We did this already at Spring Creek in the 1950s. It was called Fishermen's Paradise and attracted hordes of anglers. It had a "check in/weigh in" station and they blew a horn at dusk when everybody had to get off the stream. You were only allowed to go 5 times a year - fly fishing only w/barbless hooks. The limit was one trout-a-day, 14-inches or larger. It even had a woman's stretch in a braid in the back.

I went there several times as a boy. It was fun at first, but fishing elbow to elbow was the norm in the lower, more heavily stocked section and that wasn't my thing, even then. So I would go up into the woods and catch smaller but decent sized browns. I didn't know it at the time, but they were probably wild fish. It closed after a while even though it was so popular. I quit fishing there after I got old enough to drive to more remote streams.

I think this is just another really dumb idea to enhance license sales. Some of the Commissioners are of the opinion that (trout) fishing should be managed like a business. In my 'not-so-humble opinion' the PFBC is not a business and shouldn't be operated as if it were! In its own words: "The mission of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission is to protect, conserve, and enhance the Commonwealth’s aquatic resources..." I can only imagine how Ralph Abele must be churning in his grave.

Now I must quit writing and allow my blood pressure to go back down.
Click to expand...

Can you give some examples of what you mean by "managed like a business" and why they are bad? And in the absence of using business acumen, how do you propose that the PFBC be run?
 
SBecker wrote:
Sounds like the Jordan is a perfect candidate! Have at it! lol
Click to expand...

for logistical reasons I think ponds are better.

I think the PFBC should be part business and part charity - like the Water Authorities are in Ireland and the UK.

as well as monitoring water quality and consumption, they combine governance and management of wild fisheries with pay to play streams and ponds.

The profits from the pay to play, licences and hatchery sales goes into buying up and improving water and poacher patrols etc.

They are QUANGO's rather than part of state government.
 
Well, I prefer to see the glass as being half full...

I don't mind the "trout park" concept being tried in Pennsylvania on a number of high pressure urban/suburban stream sections with few if any wild trout. And all the knee-jerk distrust of Commission motives notwithstanding, I don't believe the proposal is a danger to stream sections with *worthwhile* wild trout populations because I don't believe such places will be considered for inclusion in a trout park program.

Actually, in some ways, I find the trout park concept encouraging. The Commission has finite fiscal resources and such a program seems to me likely to be a fairly heavy draw on these resources. It may even follow that the draw will be such that a significant portion of the long standing web of widespread stocking of regular streams may well be diminished or discontinued. Would such a thing be good or bad in general for wild trout in PA, I wonder?

A lot of interesting things are happening under Mr. Arway and I'm getting the feeling that his tenure as ED is going to be seen in retrospect as having been transformational for the agency. Now, certainly, between the DHALO proposal that has everybody in a lather, the exemption allowing the stocking of a limited number of Class A sections and now this trout park thing, there may seem to be cause to worry about the Commission's future direction in terms of its attitude towards resource-based trout management. Although to be truthful, I'm having trouble finding room for DHALO and resource-based in the same sentence. But, that's just me.

But.. But, what if the result of all this stuff is actually to once and for all force the issue on the incredibly high cost of maintaining the stocking program and actually lead to said program finally being right-sized at a much lower level?

Wouldn't that be a hoot?

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that is exactly where we end up when the smoke clears. But, like I said, I believe in the half full glass...
 
Stocking Class As, Bait Chucking in our DHALO sections, and to top the cake, trout parks.. Money before resource I guess
Add a swimming pool to Letort Park and that's one down..

"Where do you think they'll try to pull this off? It won't be on some freestoner that's got yo-yo flows and temps. Coming soon to a limestoner / Class A near you!!"

Bingo
 
isn't this the same guy who wants to improve PA's tailwaters ?

perhaps he is just throwing ideas out there that have been suggested to him, and he is seeing what the options are ?
 
Ahem no! Do not make the yough one of theses fisheries.There is actually a trout club near Farmington that serves this purpose. Its popular with visitors to nemacolin woodlands. Also 7 Springs has a fee based fly fishing reserve within its facility.
 
I have a vague memory of my dad taking me to a pay lake when I was a little boy. Think you caught your fish then took them to the office and they weighed them or something and you paid based on that.

Just bring a backhoe in. Dig hole. Local FD fills it with water . PFBC fills it with 25" lightning trout. Turn loose the hordes Have off duty police provide crowd control. On site cameras that take your picture then give you the chance to purchase on your way out like they do on amusement park rides. Two for one deals or a card that they punch - every 10th trout is free. Season passes. Refreshment stands. So many possibilities. Lol.
 
CRB wrote:
We all ready have a few they are in Erie County and the fishing is grand.
Click to expand...

So true!
 
CRB wrote:
We all ready have a few they are in Erie County and the fishing is grand.
Click to expand...

How's that stream access situation working out for you?

Spread those problems to other places in the state?

No, thanks.
 
PennKev - something tells me CRB was being sarcastic
 
Probably was, but it's still a legitimate concern in regard to creating pig pens.
 
Just let them fish in the hatchery raceways.
 
Wait a second guys. There are private companies out there already providing these types of facilities. They are making a profit. Well, if they can run a business profitability, just imagine how smooth it will be with the state handling it. We all know gubment is more efficient than private industry.

I want to see chicken wire pens filled with pelletheads TOMORROW. Picture their publicity photo....mullet haired / shirtless gent with Marlboro red and PBR hat. He's got less teeth than the the fish have pectoral fins. Mugging for the camera with his stringer full of grotesquely shaped lighting trout. That should get more people interested in trout / sell more licenses. Love it. I'll buy a season pass just to cross their lines.
 
As this discussion continues to unfold, I think we should perhaps re-read and pay closer attention to the first part of Afishinado's original post...and focus less on the Missouri example:

Note that Arway mentions as the example the privately stocked section of Pine Creek in Slate Run as being so popular due to the ready availability of large, stocked trout. He then goes on to emphasize that this is just opening a conversation and suggests that the large fish for such a program would have to be found.

Perhaps some of you are jumping this thread to worst-case-scenario-conclusions a bit too quickly.
 
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