New Rulemaking Proposal PFBC (Pinners in the FFO Areas)

[McSneek]

troutbert wrote:
I doubt if they would add any language about center pinning to the regs.

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"The Commission also proposes that the reference to “flyline with a maximum of 18 feet in leader material or monofilament line attached” be removed to eliminate a gray area regarding center-pinning techniques, which is becoming a popular technique to fish nymphs and utilizes a much longer leader.
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So, they would remove this language: "“flyline with a maximum of 18 feet in leader material or monofilament line attached.”

But add nothing to that.

They seem to think that center pinning means nymphing with a long leader.

I said basically the same thing yesterday. They have already concluded that center pinning = fly fishing as long as you use flies.
This is only about removing the 18' leader requirement.

 

[Maurice]

McSneek and TB..but the question is; Why do they think that? Because it isn't. Why isn't Spinning rods and casting rods removed from the language too? They are as similar to flyfishing in practice as Centerpinning. Just not looks.

As I said in a post on page one...Did they see this reel that looked like a fly reel and think, hey that looks like a fly reel, they should be able to use that in the FFO areas?

I have a message in to my commissioner asking for the rationale and his position on the matter.

This is akin to allowing motorcycles in the bicycle lane because they have two wheels and handlebars just like a bicycle.

No offense Biker.

 

[McSneek]

Maurice wrote:
McSneek and TB..but the question is; Why do they think that? Because it isn't. Why isn't Spinning rods and casting rods removed from the language too? They are as similar to flyfishing in practice as Centerpinning. Just not looks.

As I said in a post on page one...Did they see this reel that looked like a fly reel and think, hey that looks like a fly reel, they should be able to use that in the FFO areas?

I have a message in to my commissioner asking for the rationale and his position on the matter.

This is akin to allowing motorcycles in the bicycle lane because they have two wheels and handlebars just like a bicycle.

No offense Biker.

No idea why they think that Maurice. I have never seen anyone use a center pin set up except for steelhead so it's hard to believe a bunch of pinners got together and demanded access to FFO stretches on streams miles away from steelhead alley.

Maybe it is as simple as someone decided the reels look similar enough that they should just allow them. I don't read the current regs as prohibiting them unless someone was running straight mono.

All of these proposed changes seem to me to be the result of a brainstorming session they held at the PFBC with the sole topic being how to increase license sales and "utilization" of stocked trout.

Hope your commissioner gets back to you. Please let us know what he says if you hear from him.

 

[JackM]

'nuff said:

 

[Maurice]

JackM wrote:
'nuff said:

I am not sure why you are trolling this thread to create a gear war over it, or superiority complex. This is simply about maintaining the integrity of flyfishing.

So do you feel that a reel spooled with mono and cast like a spin rod if fly fishing?

Afterall this IS a flyfishing site and well it may not be for everyone.

We do have an OT forum for those who don't flyfish to yammer on and on and create conflict.

 

[JackM]

My commentary is as valid as yours, in my opinion. Clearly you differ. Fly Fishing Only sections, limited and scarce as they are exist to preserve a tradition and I support them. I don't want them diluted by spinning or pinning and chose a couple different ways to express that. Sorry if that gives me or FFers a "bad name." I'll gladly trade that to preserve my small slice of heaven.

 

[Chaz]

tomitrout wrote:

2. Why does thee PF&BC have FFOs?

My serious answer would be tradition. I have a lot of less serious answers as well, but won't go there in this response.

Your serious answer is pretty much the correct one, from page 16 of this document:

http://fishandboat.com/pafish/trout/trout_plan/history.pdf

Trout in Pennsylvania were also regulated using conservation or “special regulations” as early as 1934 when “Fisherman’s Paradise” was established. The “Paradise” was the first specially regulated stretch of stream in the nation. The regulations included: flyfishing only using a single barbless hook, and catch-and-release fishing, except that one trophy fish per day was allowed to be harvested. This concept was touted as Fish-for-Fun, which allowed for high catch rates for trout and still allow the angler to harvest a trophy-size trout. Many of the regulations developed in the future were based on the initial ideas of the
“Paradise.”

By the late 1950s and early 1960s, 26 streams, totaling 81 miles, had fly-fishing-only regulations with harvest of six trout nine inches or longer permitted per day. An additional three streams had fly-only, fish-for-fun special regulation areas established totaling 8.6 miles. These regulations were designed to acknowledge and maintain the history of fly fishing in Pennsylvania.

And I'll add that now we're down to 68.6 miles of FFO regulated waters, if my math is correct. That's a measely 68.6miles out of 86,000 miles of trout streams. (The 86k figure is from the visitpa.com site, qwik Google search).

Pretty effin' ridiculous that they want to furthur water down these special stretches of water. PA has an amazing heritage and pioneering history in the sport of fly fishing, it's a shame that it's no longer appreciated like it once was.

Not exactly, the 86,000 mile figure is all streams and rivers, the actual trout mileage is somewhere in the range of 15,000 to 20,000 miles, not a small number. Of that there are less than 100 miles of FFO water. There's about 1,200 miles of Class A water, and about 5,000+ of natural reproduction water. The actual number of wild trout is greater then the number of stocked trout.
Of that only 68 +- miles of water is FFO, anyone can fish the remaining miles with any tackle they wish, and have far more fun than catching fishing around a pool with 100 other yahoos.

 

[Chaz]

FarmerDave wrote:

Chaz wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:

JackM wrote:
Popeye says I mean what I say and I say what I means.

No, that was [d]Ted Cruz[/d] Dr. Seuss and it goes like this. "I meant what I said, and I said what I meant."

Dave, It think Popeye said it at least once in every cartoon.

He would say: "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam."

Come on Chaz, I was joking. It was a shot at the right and left.

He'd also say: "That's all I can stands and can stands no more," just before kicking butt. Popeye I mean, not Ted Cruz.

Dave I was kidding too. As to the original post, you can if you wish, tie on 18 feet of leader, turn the drag to nothing on your fly reel and drift any type of fly downstream as far as your backing will allow. But you will seldom need to drift that far to catch fish, that's the misconception.

 

[afishinado]

CPing is a form of spinning. I have no problem with it in areas where spin fishing is allowed, but in FFO areas it really shouldn't be allowed.

In fact, the Salmon River in Upstate NY is a place where pinning is fairly common. On the two FFO areas, pinning is prohibited.

And ironically, the Comp anglers using Euro nymphing techniques have a similar rule to the existing FBC rule....No more than 20' of mono line attached as a leader which must be attached to a fly line.

The same thing has happened with the PFGC. When participation (as well as license sales) declined, that Commish opened things up to boost participation. Example of progression in liberalizing Archery regs: Longbow or recurve only > added compound bow > added limited crossbow > now open to crossbow as well as any other type of "bow."

Remember, there were many, at least when compared to now, FFO areas. They were converted to ALO areas. The opening of FF areas to other methods is part of the progression, as is the recent proposal of opening DHALO area to bait fishing and earlier in the season. Hey....how 'bout crossbow fishing!

Gawl dangit....it seems that every new rule and policy proposed is going against us. I may have to upgrade my internet service to handle all the stuff I have to send out to the Commish.

Remember.....if you don't like what's going on, make your voice heard, send in a comment. We all buy licenses and our sport should be represented too. We are all being pushed to bank. Don't let that happen. The Commish is trying to do anything to survive, but is on the wrong track, IMO.

 

[krayfish2]

Tom,
If that's where they are headed ..... Just open trout season to 24/ 7 / 365 harvest. Any method including bow. This way the stockers are more likely to be utilized.

 

[SBecker]

afishinado wrote:


And ironically, the Comp anglers using Euro nymphing techniques have a similar rule to the existing FBC rule....No more than 20' of mono line attached as a leader which must be attached to a fly line.



Remember.....if you don't like what's going on, make your voice heard, send in a comment. We all buy licenses and our sport should be represented too. We are all being pushed to bank. Don't let that happen. The Commish is trying to do anything to survive, but is on the wrong track, IMO.

It's actually twice your rod length with an 11ft rod limit, but yeah. ... basically 20th such most of us use 10ft rods.

Don't let the dirty pines win!

 

[bikerfish]

haha! they talk about utilizing the stockies, but then they reduce stocking rates!
I also feel they are against us, the miles of FFO, or even DHALO areas are a tiny percentage of the total miles of fishable water. I'm sorry, but the argument that these waters are better is BS. IF they ARE better, it's probably because some groups took the time and money to MAKE them better. If the masterbaiters want better water, let them take the time and money to improve whatever waters they would like. If they(or pinners or anyone else) want to fish FFO waters, then get a damn flyrod.

 

[pro4mance]

Go get em Biker !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CRB]

bikerfish wrote:
haha! they talk about utilizing the stockies, but then they reduce stocking rates!
I also feel they are against us, the miles of FFO, or even DHALO areas are a tiny percentage of the total miles of fishable water. I'm sorry, but the argument that these waters are better is BS. IF they ARE better, it's probably because some groups took the time and money to MAKE them better. If the masterbaiters want better water, let them take the time and money to improve whatever waters they would like. If they(or pinners or anyone else) want to fish FFO waters, then get a damn flyrod.

+1

Fish and Boat want to sell more licenses reduce costs than they better start cutting the people suggesting these purposed rule changes and find out why people buy licenses....I'll give you the reason 100% of people fish is to catch fish. The more they catch(not creel) will keep them coming back year after year. The bests utilization would be catch and release and there should be a study out there as to how many times these fish are re caught to back this up. O' wait probably is but the study is probably flawed as the time periods between are too long thus placing natural predation and stream temps into the equation.

 

[JackM]

I am sorry to say CRB that I think the majority wish to be able to creel. And if less than a majority, certainly such a substantial portion that the PFBC must pay them due regard. I think they do that now and these proposed changes are not needed to hold them in the game.

If someone refuses to purchase a permit because they are excluded from a small percentage of waters because of their choice of tackle, I think we can afford to lose them as stakeholders. It may cut down on the required rate of stocking in PA. Let them take up golf.

 

[Maurice]

I received a reply from my commissioner and he urged everyone to respond during the comment period. He, as we, feel this is a huge mistake and frankly, hadn't realized the language used would open up this can of worms. So while he tries to dial it back, lets give him the support make your comments using the links on the home page by clicking Here.

I am very pleased that this is an oversight and not an intentional move to diminish fly fishing. But we need to let the F&BC know we have noticed this change and that we are paying attention. So please comment today.

Thanks

 

[MHanes]

I suggested the twice the rod length as a way of keeping it roughly the same and a lot easier to look at a guys rig and see if they are legal. It really would not change the rule.

 

[lestrout]

Mo - thanks for the very helpful link. Sorted and dusted.

 

[afishinado]

Maurice wrote:
I received a reply from my commissioner and he urged everyone to respond during the comment period. He, as we, feel this is a huge mistake and frankly, hadn't realized the language used would open up this can of worms. So while he tries to dial it back, lets give him the support make your comments using the links on the home page by clicking Here.

I am very pleased that this is an oversight and not an intentional move to diminish fly fishing. But we need to let the F&BC know we have noticed this change and that we are paying attention. So please comment today.

Thanks

Really easy to make a comment! I've used the comment form so many times lately all my info is now autofill. I just have to type in my comment and hit "send."

Also, I've bookmarked the PFBC comment page since I use it so frequently now..suggest everyone do the same! :roll:

 

[Maurice]

Have you made YOUR comment yet?

I just got off the phone with Mr Bachman and he wanted to make sure I got his email and encourages everyone concerned about this to comment. Said he'd like to see 1,000 comments against it.

When he googled centerpinning he told me he hadn't heard of it before...and that he wished he had when he live in Washington State and fished Steelhead. But he said it definitely isn't flyfishing and he is embarrassed that this language was included in the rules change. He said he didn't even recall a discussion about it at the Jan meeting.

So please comment if it means something to you one way or another. Here is the link again. Link for comment

Hey its his last hurrah as he is retiring at the end of the month, he is one of the few who've stood for the good of wild trout and the resource...lets help him go out with a win!