Mud snails in Lackawanna River

[Bamboozle]

It’s a good thing that these snails aren’t super tiny and could possibly be carried down stream by water currents.

Oh wait…….

Oh wait...

They are so super tiny there are NONE in Section 1 (where they were introduced by stocking according to the PAFF experts) because they were ALL carried downstream...

 

[Cznymph]

Oh wait...

They are so super tiny there are NONE in Section 1 (where they were introduced by stocking according to the PAFF experts) because they were ALL carried downstream...

It only takes one, since these snails are able to reproduce asexually.

I don’t have any proof that they did come from stocking, just as you don’t have any proof that they didn’t. But if I wake up tomorrow, and read that an elephant is wandering around Philadelphia, you had better believe that I would logically think that it escaped from the zoo. (You know, the place that already had elephants.)

 

[sixfootfenwick]

It only takes one, since these snails are able to reproduce asexually.

I don’t have any proof that they did come from stocking, just as you don’t have any proof that they didn’t. But if I wake up tomorrow, and read that an elephant is wandering around Philadelphia, you had better believe that I would logically think that it escaped from the zdeoo. (You know, the place that already had elephants.)

I have fished the Lackawanna quite often. Including section 7 and below that.
It is not uncommon at all to catch or see stocked fish.

They even show up in PFBC surveys in that section.

They claim small numbers, but they can't shock the deepest holes in low water and they are spread all throughout the river.

You can see them and catch them on a fairly regular basis.

I've seen 4 Palominos in one hole in section 7 one year alone.


A cooler with ice helps them make it all the way my garden.

 

[dryflyguy]

I also a few palominos in the green ridge area
And my buddy caught quite a few stocked brookies in same spot one day too

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Heck just walking above green ridge at the trestle, I saw about 50 trout stacked like cord wood while standing above them. They were all rainbows.😂

Where do these stocked fish come from? 😆

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I also a few palominos in the green ridge area
And my buddy caught quite a few stocked brookies in same spot one day too

That's interesting. I have never caught a stocked brook trout in the Lackawanna but I'm sure they are in there.

In August, during a heat wave, stop off at the various tribs and sewer outflows. You will be surprised how many palominos in the Lackawanna. I think they last longer given many won't fish it and the depth of some of the water protects them from predators.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have fished the Lackawanna quite often. Including section 7 and below that....

I think we have identified the fisherman who is source of the Mud Snails...

 

[silverfox]

Heck just walking above green ridge at the trestle, I saw about 50 trout stacked like cord wood while standing above them. They were all rainbows.😂

Where do these stocked fish come from? 😆

https://switchfisher.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/trout_movement.pdf

In the spring of 2005, fisheries biologists monitored the movement of the radio-tagged preseason stocked trout in both streams with radio telemetry equipment. The radio-tagged fish showed little movement for the first few days of the study. Most of the rainbow trout from both creeks left their stocking points and headed downstream after the third day. Several rainbows were never found again. One rainbow trout from Tunkhannock Creek was found nearly 13 miles downstream from its stocking point. And one rainbow from Wysox Creek was found 123 miles downstream in the North Branch of the Susquehanna River.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I think we have identified the fisherman who is source of the Mud Snails...

Yeah it's me given I haven't fished it in about a decade 😂

 

[sixfootfenwick]

https://switchfisher.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/trout_movement.pdf

You mean the stocked rainbows down there came from stocking and fish swim?😳

Wow!

I remember them having someone catch two Rainbows in the Gulf of Mexico with tags that were stocked in Hogestown Run.

 

[Nympho]

They stocked the Sweeny Beach section in June for a kids derby.

 

[dryflyguy]

They stocked the Sweeny Beach section in June for a kids derby.

That's actually right where the mud snails were found, and the warning sign is.
Just a coincidence?
Do they stock for the derby there every year?

 

[Nympho]

That's actually right where the mud snails were found, and the warning sign is.
Just a coincidence?
Do they stock for the derby there every year?

They have been stocking for that derby there for a few years. I fish that area a lot and was just there last week but didn't see any mud snails but I will definitely be on the lookout now.

 

[dryflyguy]

They have been stocking for that derby there for a few years. I fish that area a lot and was just there last week but didn't see any mud snails but I will definitely be on the lookout now.

Thanks.
Now, if we could found out who stocked the fish , and where they got them from - it could be quite telling

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Thanks.
Now, if we could found out who stocked the fish , and where they got them from - it could be quite telling

I know.
Park Place River Association and I think they get them from Big Brown Fish Hatchery

 

[Nocktavius]

I don’t clean my gear between fishing different waterways. Never have, never will. Fight me.

This is 100% a PFBC stocking problem. Only evidence you need is to look where the hatcheries are. If the fishy commission wants to buy me a second $1000 set of Simms G4’s then maybe I’ll worry about it. Prolly not tho.

 

[Mike]

Only evidence you need is to look where the hatcheries are.

Not sure what you are trying to say here because the hatchery, if it was one, or the hatcheries, if it was both on Spring Creek inherited the mud snails from Spring Creek and it was not the other way around. Given that the source in Spring Ck wasn’t the hatcheries, what source(s) would you then suspect?

As for cleaning gear in the recommended ways for appropriate biosecurity, since some never do so, then perhaps they would at least check beneath the wading boot laces and check inside the boot because the snails are frequently found mixed with sand and other debris that gets between the stocking foot and the boot. I know this from PFBC biologists telling me that those are two problem areas that they have experienced during surveys for mud snails. I assume that anglers rinse such materials out if they happen to get in the boot anyway. Anglers should also and can easily rinse off the mud that lodges in the lugs of the boots since the exposed snails in the lugs can get buried/covered in that mud as they leave the stream.

And by the way, one of my biologist friends and former colleagues has yet to find a mud snail in or on his boot foot waders during mud snail surveys. I was at Dick’s last evening and saw boot foot waders for $100 and hip boots for $50.

 

[Nocktavius]

Not sure what you are trying to say here because the hatchery, if it was one, or the hatcheries, if it was both on Spring Creek inherited the mud snails from Spring Creek and it was not the other way around. Given that the source in Spring Ck wasn’t the hatcheries, what source(s) would you then suspect?

As for cleaning gear in the recommended ways for appropriate biosecurity, since some never do so, then perhaps they would at least check beneath the wading boot laces and check inside the boot because the snails are frequently found mixed with sand and other debris that gets between the stocking foot and the boot. I know this from PFBC biologists telling me that those are two problem areas that they have experienced during surveys for mud snails. I assume that anglers rinse such materials out if they happen to get in the boot anyway. Anglers should also and can easily rinse off the mud that lodges in the lugs of the boots since the exposed snails in the lugs can get buried/covered in that mud as they leave the stream.

And by the way, one of my biologist friends and former colleagues has yet to find a mud snail in or on his boot foot waders during mud snail surveys. I was at Dick’s last evening and saw boot foot waders for $100 and hip boots for $50.

Where is the evidence that they didn't come from the hatchery? Do we really think somebody went fishing in New Zealand, flew halfway across the world with their waders and then introduced them as opposed to a large scale aquaculture operation that imports materials from all across the world operating mid-river?

PFBC with the classic "we've investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrongdoing". Its infuriating that I have to give them my money to target wild trout in PA considering the resource flourishes in spite of them rather than because of them. Maybe next year will finally be the year I forget to buy a license

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Maybe next year will finally be the year I forget to buy a license

Nah fam, remember when we got carded on West Branch?

 

[Mike]

Where is the evidence that they didn't come from the hatchery? Do we really think somebody went fishing in New Zealand, flew halfway across the world with their waders and then introduced them as opposed to a large scale aquaculture operation that imports materials from all across the world operating mid-river?

PFBC with the classic "we've investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrongdoing". Its infuriating that I have to give them my money to target wild trout in PA considering the resource flourishes in spite of them rather than because of them. Maybe next year will finally be the year I forget to buy a license.

I’d suggest that anglers read how long they’ve been in the western USA and then the mid-west. It’s an educational read. First found in Idaho in 1987, and now spread around the west, it was decades before they were discovered in Spring Ck., so an angler didn’t have to fly from NZ to bring them to Pa .

Consider that based on the year old list of streams/rivers with NZMS in Pa, 21 of 23 waters either have a PFBC or a park special reg area on some portion of them or are close to waters that have special reg areas. Now one can apparently add the Lackawanna based on comments here. Given the popularity of special reg areas and the frequency with which anglers travel among the various special reg areas and famed or popular streams, this is enough to make me think that anglers should use care. Likewise, one should use the same care if not fishing the special reg areas on these streams since populations can expand and since it is not clear in most cases where exactly the snails were found within the streams.

The PFBC recommends using care everywhere, mudsnails or not. They are not the only biota of concern. At the same time, however, I would expect that they will be updating the list of streams and lakes where mud snails have been found as locations are discovered.