More posted signs on Penns Creek!!

one other thing to consider. How would Penns Valley landowners react to seeing posts and hollowing about legal funds and court cases from a bunch of guys from Philly/harrisburg (no offense meant). Especially if they haven't been approached about their concerns.
if they were heard and still insist, well may be thats the only way it has to go.
 
Just because private property isn't posted doesn't mean that it's open for public use. The posted signs simply make the idea visible to those that don't understand this concept. I don't like the idea of private water any more than the next guy, but I do respect the rights of a property owner. I'll access the water legally and keep my boots wet if I want to fish a certain section, but without permission I will not cross onto the property knowingly.
 
fishngun-I am not advocating trespassing but in Pennsylvania unless the land is posted or fenced in you are allowed to hunt or fish without permission unless the landowner has told you otherwise. Boots being wet really isn't an issue either way in this state except on certain waterways (Delaware I think and maybe Little Juniata...perhaps a few others).
 
foxtrapper, are you sure about that? I was told otherwise, that's why I ask. If you have a reference to look up that'd be great also.
 
It is certainly ALWAYS best to use caution and respect for private property when approaching a stream to fish. Especially when accessing near homes or camps or driveways to be sure you are not encroaching on some landowners privacy. However when a stream section is under a particular regulation by the F&BC whether it be Trophy Trout, Catch and Release All Tackle, or Approved Trout Waters. If its not clearly posted then the property owner implies consent to fish and access there. They know darned well there are fish in there provided by the state (or wild) and if they were not on board you can bet your boots they would let you know it with signs. Especially a popular section like Penns on Tunnel Road.

It certainly cant hurt to knock if you are not certain...(caution). But I would think that if everyone pestered them that came along that would become a problem too.

It pays to have a little humility when confronted with private property owners as well. Whether you are permitted through implied consent or not, you ARE trespassing on their private property. So be courteous and thankful and if they throw you out, apologize and move along.

 
I believe everything that you said Maurice but there's always someone who will or has ruined it for everybody in the relationship between fishermen & landowners. I am blessed to have a camp along Penns Creek and I stated in previous post on this subject that my family's patience has truly been tried to say the very least because people refuse to take the time and read the two big signs that we have posted on both sides of our camp.
FISHERMEN
( 1 ) No blocking the driveway.
( 2 ) No littering. Take home everything what you brought here.
( 3 ) No open fires.
( 4 ) No overnight camping.
( 5 ) No vehicles beyond this point.
( 6 ) No firearms.
( 7 ) No loud music or excessive noise.
Happy Fishing and be safe!
Every year there is someone who breaks nearly all these rules by either blocking our driveway, playing loud music, littering, etc., etc.,. We even had one individual tell my father that if we wanted to stop the littering that we should put out trash cans. My fathers response was quick, "I am not here to clean up after a bunch of fishermen who lack the respect of my land"! I don't believe anyone should own the stream but after my own experiences, I can see why landowners post their land.
 

" Commonwealth v. Sweeley, 29 Pa. D. & C.4th 426, 433 (C.P. 1995) (“Open lands that are not posted or fenced off are presumed open for recreational use by the public, especially in rural counties where hunting and outdoor activities are common.”).
 
Not sure why posting is a big deal, we do it for legal reasons and to eliminate the problems we had in the past. Doesn't mean anglers cant ask to fish, just allows us to know who is walking on our property.

I can assure you litter, parking and privacy are all issues we had to deal with and will make you post the property fast if common respect isn't followed.
 
Here is link to info on PA stream access- It has been discussed many times on this forum. pcrays response above says it all. It's the navigable waterways issue. How it applies to Penns Creek is the question.


http://fishandboat.com/water/public/faq_public_waters.htm

 
I haven't seen any indication that they have tried to close the creek.

Just that they've posted their land adjacent to the creek. There are no legal complications about that and navigability has no relevance at all.

In the Little Juniata case, the landowners did try to close the river. That's where the court case, the navigability issues etc. came into play. No one ever challenged their right to post their land adjacent to the river, and that land has remained posted.
 
foxtrapper1972 wrote:

" Commonwealth v. Sweeley, 29 Pa. D. & C.4th 426, 433 (C.P. 1995) (“Open lands that are not posted or fenced off are presumed open for recreational use by the public, especially in rural counties where hunting and outdoor activities are common.”).
Click to expand...

I find this a bit ridiculous. There has to be something written here or elsewhere that says you are still trespassing. Assuming you have the right to walk freely on unposted land is a bad concept to promote. Keep it up and see how many yellow signs go up everywhere.
 
I agree with the more flies with honey post. I would approach the owners before anything else and talk to them. Preferably before they read some of the posts on the board. It could make a big difference. Sadly, like I said, every time I come up from VA there is more and more land posted. It is inevitable.
 
troutbert-I'm going by what I read here. If they own and post both sides of creek and are upset about not being able to find a place to fish during busy seasons then I assume they are attempting to make it private.
 
PhilC,
There is a darn good reason why people in the know don't post their land and accept entry...Pennsylvania Act 586, the recreational use of land and water act. This has been vital in opening and keeping open private lands to all kinds of outdoor activities for decades. A requisite provision is no posting.
 
Interestingly this Act 586 that Mike mentions protects landowners from liability if someone is hurt on their land while using it for recreation. Not sure if the landowner who posts and then invites guests has any protection from liability?
 
I would think an increase in property liability insurance coverage would result if property was posted. Known hazard would be present.
 
Sure it covers you but there as always is a loop hole one can be held responsible for, it is not worth the risk if you ask me. For my comfort level this leaves to much of a grey area,in which your still can be liable for something. Any lawyer can rip this to shreds and as a landowner you would be liable. Just my opinion on the matter doesn't make it right, just a decision made on the information we received.



When the Act Doesn’t Apply: Landowners can still be liable for “willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against a dangerous condition.” Landowners may be liable when they have actual knowledge of a dangerous condition and the danger is not obvious to those entering the land.3

And this provides me no comfort at all.


However, landowners must recognize that the scope of RULWA’s protection is not completely clear



 
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