Lower Susquehanna Bass Fishing
- Thread starter larkmark
- Start date
I just finished reading that and you beat me to posting it by about 5 minutes. don't know that you would catch me wet wading anywhere around there. I mean...we all knew that the folks in the capital were full of s**t but I had no idea they were so full.
Funny all the anti snakehead stuff from people on here with brown trout avatars when they may be the only gamefish that could populate this fishery besides catfish and carp . Like I said before I have friends that live near the lower river that can’t wait for the snakeheads to come up so they have something other than catfish or carp to fish for on the lower river . It’s pretty sad that they are doing nothing to clean the river down there . Might have been better off in closing the fish latter at the conowingo dam this year then have those fish swim into that filth .
larkmark
Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2019
- Messages
- 876
I have warned people about wading it and any areas below these wastewater treatment plants, which is just about everywhere now. Have been to doctor twice for very bad infections. I stay out now.
If you think the answer to dying fisheries is to introduce Snakeheads and Flatheads rather than clean up our effing mess then I don't know what to say. Brown Trout need reasonably clean water to survive.
If you think the answer to dying fisheries is to introduce Snakeheads and Flatheads rather than clean up our effing mess then I don't know what to say. Brown Trout need reasonably clean water to survive.
I didn’t say introduce anything those fish are already in the river I’m just merely stating the fact that the state is not making any effort to fix the problem and that if they don’t that’s the only fish that will be able to tolerate the pollution. God bless these people for stepping up and monitoring the E. coli levels in the river so that the state can be held accountable. I’m sure that this has gone undetected for some time now and the state was aware .
GeneBeam
Active member
There is a difference between a non-native and invasive species, Brown Trout are non-native species but snakeheads are an invasive species, but maybe the filth in Lower Susquehanna will act like Rotenone on snakeheads.
salvelinusfontinalis
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,284
Can someone explain to me, how by definition brown trout are not invasive?
Fly-Swatter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,274
(from wikipedia)
"An invasive species is a species that is not native to a specific location (an introduced species), and that has a tendency to spread to a degree believed to cause damage to the environment, human economy and/or human health.
The term as most often used applies to introduced species that adversely affect the habitats and bioregions they invade economically, environmentally, or ecologically. Such species may be either plants or animals and may disrupt by dominating a region, wilderness areas, particular habitats, or wildland–urban interface land from loss of natural controls (such as predators or herbivores)."
So, it seems there is room for interpretation. Non-native does not mean invasive. There is a malignant aspect to being invasive. So, you could argue BT are invasive in that they have, and are supplanting native ST. I think it's a toss up since there are natural controls on BT.
FWIW (also from Wikipedia)
"Humans are a highly invasive species that have been responsible for widespread ecological changes to areas they have invaded."
"An invasive species is a species that is not native to a specific location (an introduced species), and that has a tendency to spread to a degree believed to cause damage to the environment, human economy and/or human health.
The term as most often used applies to introduced species that adversely affect the habitats and bioregions they invade economically, environmentally, or ecologically. Such species may be either plants or animals and may disrupt by dominating a region, wilderness areas, particular habitats, or wildland–urban interface land from loss of natural controls (such as predators or herbivores)."
So, it seems there is room for interpretation. Non-native does not mean invasive. There is a malignant aspect to being invasive. So, you could argue BT are invasive in that they have, and are supplanting native ST. I think it's a toss up since there are natural controls on BT.
FWIW (also from Wikipedia)
"Humans are a highly invasive species that have been responsible for widespread ecological changes to areas they have invaded."
So what you are saying is that brown trout are not dominating all the wild trout streams in our state that were once dominated by brook trout . And due to natural controls I’m assuming water temps that brown trout are considered a non native species ?
Fly-Swatter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,274
To (oddly) quote myself "...you could argue BT are invasive in that they have, and are supplanting native ST. I think it's a toss up since there are natural controls on BT."
What did I say that needs clarification? What you said is nothing like what I said.
Regarding snakeheads, which I ASSUME you are indirectly trying to defend, the jury is still out and will be for quite some time. They are, in my opinion, a non-native species of concern. The SAFE thing is to prevent such incursions so the RISK of ecosystem damage is minimized. Having said that, there is no way any species, including snakeheads, can do damage to the ecosystem we as a species have done and continue to do. That's why I included that last quote from Wikipedia.
What did I say that needs clarification? What you said is nothing like what I said.
Regarding snakeheads, which I ASSUME you are indirectly trying to defend, the jury is still out and will be for quite some time. They are, in my opinion, a non-native species of concern. The SAFE thing is to prevent such incursions so the RISK of ecosystem damage is minimized. Having said that, there is no way any species, including snakeheads, can do damage to the ecosystem we as a species have done and continue to do. That's why I included that last quote from Wikipedia.
Brown trout are not an invasive species in most situations, they are an introduced non native species. This is biology 101, maybe even 9th grade biology.
Brown trout would be considered invasive if their presence alone diminished a population of brook trout. I'm sure that has happened some places, but the reason brook trout are no longer the main trout species in say penns creek is not due to brook trout. If I'm wrong the state should apply rotenone to Penns and plant heritage strain brook trout and penns creek would become pas answer to labrador.Labrador.
I'm sure there are some places in PA where browns could be classified as invasive but they are few and far between. I'm of the understanding that there were never brook trout in letort but I could be wrong. Are browns invasive there too?
Brown trout would be considered invasive if their presence alone diminished a population of brook trout. I'm sure that has happened some places, but the reason brook trout are no longer the main trout species in say penns creek is not due to brook trout. If I'm wrong the state should apply rotenone to Penns and plant heritage strain brook trout and penns creek would become pas answer to labrador.Labrador.
I'm sure there are some places in PA where browns could be classified as invasive but they are few and far between. I'm of the understanding that there were never brook trout in letort but I could be wrong. Are browns invasive there too?
https://patrout.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/easternbrooktroutrestorationroadmap.pdf
European brown trout were introduced into Pennsylvania around 1886. Brown trout are better able to tolerate human disturbances than native brook trout. Brown trout are also slightly more tolerant of elevated water temperatures. Brown trout have displaced native brook trout in most of the Commonwealth’s larger and more fertile streams and especially the rich limestone waters. Limestone streams of Pennsylvania are now dominated almost entirely by naturalized brown trout populations. A few limestone and limestone-influenced streams and many of the more fertile freestone streams have sympatric (mixed species) brook/brown trout populations. In waters with sympatric populations of the two species, brown trout size and biomass usually exceeds that of the brook trout.
That’s sound very invasive to me , they were introduced and out competed brook trout to the point in most cases they are no longer found in those streams , don’t need a 9th grade biology class To figure that out .
salvelinusfontinalis
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,284
There was in fact a wild brook trout population in the Letort at one time.
wonder if all these college university professors and students passed 9th grade biology.
Have a scroll and look at all those papers.
Ill give you just one guess why they are NOT consider invasive here.
Hint: many conservation groups, scientists and studies label brown trout as invasive to brook trout. Also the stocking of non native trout over brook trout as a major threat.
Funny i dont see it listed here
wonder if all these college university professors and students passed 9th grade biology.
Have a scroll and look at all those papers.
Ill give you just one guess why they are NOT consider invasive here.
Hint: many conservation groups, scientists and studies label brown trout as invasive to brook trout. Also the stocking of non native trout over brook trout as a major threat.
Funny i dont see it listed here
salvelinusfontinalis
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,284
Dont get me wrong. I like brown trout just as much as the next guy. I just cant see how they arent invasive other than for monetary reasons.
salvelinusfontinalis
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,284
Sorry Fred, i still dislike snakeheads ;-)
salvelinusfontinalis
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,284
Edit:
My bad and somehow i missed it. The pfbc did mention brown trout in my above link.
Which begs another question.
If the PFBC lists brown trout as a major threat to brook trout, WHY DO THEY STILL STOCK BROWNS OVER THEM AND WHY ISNT THE ELIMINATION OF STOCKING OVER THEM ON YOUR LIST OF STRATEGIES TO PROTECT AND ENHANCE THEM?
$
Touche' Fred
My bad and somehow i missed it. The pfbc did mention brown trout in my above link.
Which begs another question.
If the PFBC lists brown trout as a major threat to brook trout, WHY DO THEY STILL STOCK BROWNS OVER THEM AND WHY ISNT THE ELIMINATION OF STOCKING OVER THEM ON YOUR LIST OF STRATEGIES TO PROTECT AND ENHANCE THEM?
$
Touche' Fred
