Low pay and poor morale are driving out these Pa. conservation officers

Thanks, Tim! I think there are many aspects people don't consider when looking at hours that teachers work. Class sizes and number of classes taught in a day have increased in most schools. In our social studies department, each member had to teach 6/7 periods a day at least every other year. This was necessary in order to teach all the new classes that are demanded by students, parents, and administrators. One year I was teaching 6/7 periods a day 163 students a day! I was sometimes at school by 5:30 those years and usually stayed until at least 4. So do the math if I assign an essay that takes 15 minutes to grade each. That adds up to an extra FULL week of work if they are graded to the standards that are necessary to promote student learning and provide adequate feedback. Some years I had as many as 25 IEP's and it was usually the year I was teaching 6 classes. That entailed reading the IEP, adapting lessons, meeting regularly with the Learning Support Teachers, sometimes filling out daily behavioral reports, and having a couple formal meetings a year. A ton of work goes into writing those IEP's so that was a major source of "unpaid" overtime for Learning Support Teachers.

I also taught AP European History. For the most part, all of the AP courses necessitated summer work in order to cover the needed content by the time of the AP Exam. So, students were submitting work throughout the summer that I needed to grade and provide feedback on. That was probably an extra 2 weeks of work during the summer depending on the class size.

The other thing that was a great challenge was Covid which at least one person on here thinks was where we showed our "true nature". Covid collided with many other social and political trends all of which provided tension in the classroom and continue to this day. Also throw in technological changes, and as an earlier poster mentioned, attacks on certain jobs on the internet. I think the school choice movement stoked this fire on behalf of their financial supporters who hoped to profit off providing alternatives to public schools. It was really demoralizing for many of us to see these unwarranted attacks. While not all is right with the public schools, I still think they are essential to the well-being of our communities and our nation. I think I was lucky in that most in our community supported us. There was some backlash from some groups often related to some of the local conservative churches and anti-mask groups. But in the end we weathered the storm and even had a school board member who was also a pastor in a local church , apologize to us for how his congregation had treated us the previous year!

And of course, the biggest advantage of being retired now is that I can actually find time to fish during prime fishing season, not during the summer doldrums!
 
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Nice try as well...

That average teacher's salary equates to $21 an hour which equates to 257 eight hour days.

What teacher WHERE works 257 days a year because is a stipulation in their contract for that many work days???

Heck in my local school district by this time next week they will already have two days off and a three hour early dismissal after one week of school...

And there is NEVER, EVER, EVER a month where school is open 20 -22 days. So call it 19 times a month (and I'm sure it is less than that with holidays & vacations).

Multiply that by the nine months school is in session comes to 171 days working in a year versus the rest of the schlubs out there who work an average of 260 days.

That is more realistically $54K a year, still not $125K but regardless not $43,247 for the same number of days as the rest of us....
That is some nice gymnastics. Teacher contracts are for 190 working days. There is almost zero time given to them during their contracted working time to prep and do grades. They work many late nights and weekends prepping and grading. It is a mind numbing grind getting through a school year.

In a world where CEO's make millons every year and politicians are getting rich having a leg up on the stock market, you choose to get upset about someone making 100K MAYBE after putting 20 years in, depending on what district they work in.

Quite frankly you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
That is some nice gymnastics. Teacher contracts are for 190 working days. There is almost zero time given to them during their contracted working time to prep and do grades. They work many late nights and weekends prepping and grading. It is a mind numbing grind getting through a school year.

In a world where CEO's make millons every year and politicians are getting rich having a leg up on the stock market, you choose to get upset about someone making 100K MAYBE after putting 20 years in, depending on what district they work in.

Quite frankly you should be ashamed of yourself.

I know a few CEO's, CFO's, COO's and the like that work 80 -120 hours a week with anything over 40 uncompensated and they don't necessarily make millions a year so people working hard and extra is nothing new or unique to the teaching profession...

There are also more than a few of the rank & file making WAY more than their white collar counterparts so the "executive hating" rhetoric based on imagined income level is often without merit.

As far as beings ashamed, ashamed of what?

For pointing out that a teacher making 40K a year has a higher per-diem rate than a plumber making the 40K?

I don't begrudge anybody making what they make and that includes the original topic of this thread. I just find teacher's salaries misleading because they don't WORK as many days as the rest of us.

I was reminded of that every when an x-teacher/x-fishing buddy had the whole summer off every year for the same advertised annual compensation as a few workers in my office who worked 12 months a year.
 
I know a few CEO's, CFO's, COO's and the like that work 80 -120 hours a week with anything over 40 uncompensated and they don't necessarily make millions a year so people working hard and extra is nothing new or unique to the teaching profession...

There are also more than a few of the rank & file making WAY more than their white collar counterparts so the "executive hating" rhetoric based on imagined income level is often without merit.

As far as beings ashamed, ashamed of what?

For pointing out that a teacher making 40K a year has a higher per-diem rate than a plumber making the 40K?

I don't begrudge anybody making what they make and that includes the original topic of this thread. I just find teacher's salaries misleading because they don't WORK as many days as the rest of us.

I was reminded of that every when an x-teacher/x-fishing buddy had the whole summer off every year for the same advertised annual compensation as a few workers in my office who worked 12 months a year.
Dear Bamboozle,

If a plumber who passed their apprenticeship in this day and age is making less than 70K a year they are doing something terribly wrong. Travel time even in Harrisburg is $ 150.00 an hour with a one hour minimum.

I usually enjoy your perspective and comments but there comes a time to say enough is enough. It's OK to admit that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and leave the conversation.

Now would be that time for you, buckaroo! Put the shovel down, you've already slung way more than your weight in s**t and said nothing of substance.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
It's OK to admit that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and leave the conversation.
That rarely happens about any topic on here. I suppose the positive is that different views bring out the best discussion. I brought up the topic of how chopping down trees makes them grow longer. I was met with “just google it” and completely factually incorrect posts. Sometimes when you have been wrong long enough you can’t wrap your head around anybody else being right and how silly your beliefs are. It’s like cult members. To get out, they have to admit they were wrong. That’s a tough pill to swallow for most. Oh well we are all here to learn and have fun.
~5footfenwick
 
That rarely happens about any topic on here. I suppose the positive is that different views bring out the best discussion. I brought up the topic of how chopping down trees makes them grow longer. I was met with “just google it” and completely factually incorrect posts. Sometimes when you have been wrong long enough you can’t wrap your head around anybody else being right and how silly your beliefs are. It’s like cult members. To get out, they have to admit they were wrong. That’s a tough pill to swallow for most. Oh well we are all here to learn and have fun.
~5footfenwick
Dear 5footfenwick,

Differing views are one thing, repeating the same thing on and on is another thing entirely.

I enjoy the bantering and even, dare I say, the arguing, but repeating things constantly gets tiring, even to a hard-headed Mick like me.

But sometimes the Mick just comes out, this was one of those times. I'd repeat my comment until he gets it.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
Can we all agree teaching and law enforcement are noble professions and deserve every cent they are paid, and in many cases much more?

Fish and Game wardens should be paid WAY more than they are currently. This would go a long way toward helping the agencies to retain the best candidates.
 
Dear 5footfenwick,

Differing views are one thing, repeating the same thing on and on is another thing entirely.

I enjoy the bantering and even, dare I say, the arguing, but repeating things constantly gets tiring, even to a hard-headed Mick like me.

But sometimes the Mick just comes out, this was one of those times. I'd repeat my comment until he gets it.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
Perhaps I’m biased. I was always raised believing teachers were underpaid. My mother was a school teacher. After about 20 years of working she was standing up on a chair hanging up decorations mid class. Several students thought it would be funny to shove the chair out from under her. She fell…..And broke her neck in 4 places. She never sued, never pressed charges. I was always taught never sue. Two wrongs don’t make a right. She taught from a wheelchair for several years until she got back to normal. She taught 14 more years after that. She now goes solo camping for days at a time. Almost every week March through November. At almost 80 I believe she deserves those benefits and retirement package.
Perhaps I’m biased.
 
Perhaps I’m biased. I was always raised believing teachers were underpaid. My mother was a school teacher. After about 20 years of working she was standing up on a chair hanging up decorations mid class. Several students thought it would be funny to shove the chair out from under her. She fell…..And broke her neck in 4 places. She never sued, never pressed charges. I was always taught never sue. Two wrongs don’t make a right. She taught from a wheelchair for several years until she got back to normal. She taught 14 more years after that. She now goes solo camping for days at a time. Almost every week March through November. At almost 80 I believe she deserves those benefits and retirement package.
Perhaps I’m biased.
Dear 5footfenwick.

There are those who see teaching as a calling. Your mother would obviously be one of those people.

I'm glad she is still active and hope she goes a few more miles.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
Dear Bamboozle,

If a plumber who passed their apprenticeship in this day and age is making less than 70K a year they are doing something terribly wrong. Travel time even in Harrisburg is $ 150.00 an hour with a one hour minimum.

I usually enjoy your perspective and comments but there comes a time to say enough is enough. It's OK to admit that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and leave the conversation.

Now would be that time for you, buckaroo! Put the shovel down, you've already slung way more than your weight in s**t and said nothing of substance.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

EXCUSE F'n me!!!

OK how about a guy the cuts grass for a living, does that make you happier...???

....or how the using the custodian your father opened & closed the school with every day (for no compensation) as a reference...

The bottom line is your father's experience as a teacher and others who were teachers, along with some other's elevation of teachers to sainthood has clouded your ability and theirs to be objective and accept the reality that teachers are NOT compensated like the rest of the population regardless of the salary level.

THAT is my ONLY poiint...

Which begs the questions, why are you and teachers and the teachers unions so afraid to admit that a custodian (there does that make you feel better) making $40k a year works an 70 additional days a year for the same "annual" salary...

Is it some kind of secret that must never be disclosed...??

As far as "have(ing) absolutely no idea what you are talking about and leav(ing) the conversation..."

First off, F you...!!!

Second, my school taxes (and don't even get me started on the inequities of that farce) would make most of you break out in tears.

So as long as I am paying the bill for these "saints," I quite frankly have a say in how my money is spent even if I don't have any idea what YOU are talking about...

Quite frankly, we can't get to AI teacher-less cyber schools and government funded charter & alternative schools fast enough...

But what do I know, I'm not a teacher, son of teacher or some fat cat principal, district supervisor, union boss or other person that makes a fortune from the "education" system...
 
Can we all agree teaching and law enforcement are noble professions and deserve every cent they are paid, and in many cases much more?

Fish and Game wardens should be paid WAY more than they are currently. This would go a long way toward helping the agencies to retain the best candidates.
Sometimes it's just so simple!!
 
EXCUSE F'n me!!!

OK how about a guy the cuts grass for a living, does that make you happier...???

....or how the using the custodian your father opened & closed the school with every day (for no compensation) as a reference...

The bottom line is your father's experience as a teacher and others who were teachers, along with some other's elevation of teachers to sainthood has clouded your ability and theirs to be objective and accept the reality that teachers are NOT compensated like the rest of the population regardless of the salary level.

THAT is my ONLY poiint...

Which begs the questions, why are you and teachers and the teachers unions so afraid to admit that a custodian (there does that make you feel better) making $40k a year works an 70 additional days a year for the same "annual" salary...

Is it some kind of secret that must never be disclosed...??

As far as "have(ing) absolutely no idea what you are talking about and leav(ing) the conversation..."

First off, F you...!!!

Second, my school taxes (and don't even get me started on the inequities of that farce) would make most of you break out in tears.

So as long as I am paying the bill for these "saints," I quite frankly have a say in how my money is spent even if I don't have any idea what YOU are talking about...

Quite frankly, we can't get to AI teacher-less cyber schools and government funded charter & alternative schools fast enough...

But what do I know, I'm not a teacher, son of teacher or some fat cat principal, district supervisor, union boss or other person that makes a fortune from the "education" system...
Dear Bamboozle,

You're often wrong but never in doubt. You whine incessantly like a schoolgirl, and it's beyond boring.

Put the shovel down buckaroo!

I'm done with you so you can have the last word. As a constant whiner I'm sure you will avail yourself of the opportunity.

Regards,

Tim Murphy
 
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EXCUSE F'n me!!!

OK how about a guy the cuts grass for a living, does that make you happier...???

....or how the using the custodian your father opened & closed the school with every day (for no compensation) as a reference...

The bottom line is your father's experience as a teacher and others who were teachers, along with some other's elevation of teachers to sainthood has clouded your ability and theirs to be objective and accept the reality that teachers are NOT compensated like the rest of the population regardless of the salary level.

THAT is my ONLY poiint...

Which begs the questions, why are you and teachers and the teachers unions so afraid to admit that a custodian (there does that make you feel better) making $40k a year works an 70 additional days a year for the same "annual" salary...

Is it some kind of secret that must never be disclosed...??

As far as "have(ing) absolutely no idea what you are talking about and leav(ing) the conversation..."

First off, F you...!!!

Second, my school taxes (and don't even get me started on the inequities of that farce) would make most of you break out in tears.

So as long as I am paying the bill for these "saints," I quite frankly have a say in how my money is spent even if I don't have any idea what YOU are talking about...

Quite frankly, we can't get to AI teacher-less cyber schools and government funded charter & alternative schools fast enough...

But what do I know, I'm not a teacher, son of teacher or some fat cat principal, district supervisor, union boss or other person that makes a fortune from the "education" system...
And it shows.
 
Dear Bamboozle,

You whine incessantly like a schoolgirl, and it's beyond boring.

Put the shovel down buckaroo!

I'm done with you so you can have the last word. As a constant whiner I'm sure you will avail yourself of the opportunity.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

EXCUSE F'n me!!!

OK how about a guy the cuts grass for a living, does that make you happier...???

....or how the using the custodian your father opened & closed the school with every day (for no compensation) as a reference...

The bottom line is your father's experience as a teacher and others who were teachers, along with some other's elevation of teachers to sainthood has clouded your ability and theirs to be objective and accept the reality that teachers are NOT compensated like the rest of the population regardless of the salary level.

THAT is my ONLY poiint...

Which begs the questions, why are you and teachers and the teachers unions so afraid to admit that a custodian (there does that make you feel better) making $40k a year works an 70 additional days a year for the same "annual" salary...

Is it some kind of secret that must never be disclosed...??

As far as "have(ing) absolutely no idea what you are talking about and leav(ing) the conversation..."

First off, F you...!!!

Second, my school taxes (and don't even get me started on the inequities of that farce) would make most of you break out in tears.

So as long as I am paying the bill for these "saints," I quite frankly have a say in how my money is spent even if I don't have any idea what YOU are talking about...

Quite frankly, we can't get to AI teacher-less cyber schools and government funded charter & alternative schools fast enough...

But what do I know, I'm not a teacher, son of teacher or some fat cat principal, district supervisor, union boss or other person that makes a fortune from the "education" system...
With all do respect, why are schools at a loss to find teachers and administrators? AI??? All these parents who talk like this, were the same ones crying about lost face to face time with their teachers.
 
Interesting thread. I recently retired after working in healthcare for 42 years, the final 22 years in administration. I was salaried, so the compensation per hour is not reflective of the time actually worked. I never worked an 8 hour day. On call 24/7. This is similar for teachers. It is not the days worked; it is the time worked. Our daughter is a teacher who recently returned from 12 years teaching in the remote bush in Alaska. She taught every grade from K through super senior. She had to prepare separate lesson plans each day for each level. This work was performed after school was over for the day. Her and her husband recently returned to the area, and she chose to accept a position in a rural school district. She was offered a higher salary to work in one of the urban school districts, but declined the offers due to all of the issues with the parents. We also have a son who is a Pa State Police Trooper. We will be relieved when he reaches retirement because of the danger associated with his profession. He has many stories. Finally, we have a son who is an RN. Due to staffing shortages, he never works his assigned shift and must stay late every day to provide the care his patients deserve. They all deserve the compensation and time off they have earned. I am a firm believer in “walk a mile in their shoes” before providing commentary.
 
Can we all agree teaching and law enforcement are noble professions and deserve every cent they are paid, and in many cases much more?

Fish and Game wardens should be paid WAY more than they are currently. This would go a long way toward helping the agencies to retain the best candidates.
Since you have deemed these a noble professions, should we hold these employed in these roles to a higher standard or should we allow those convicted of serious crimes to retain their jobs?
 
Tim and RW,

Thank you for posts 40 and 41.

Maybe now future posts will reflect opinions about the original topic. I am rooting for the WCOs.
 
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