Improving Wild Trout Angling in PA

[KenU]

How would you rank the top 3 things that you feel we need to do to improve (and encourage) wild trout angling in PA.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

That's really tough because of the "encourage" part. That would require a shift, I think, in the mindset of the general public as far as what trout fishing is.

There are environmental concerns and land access concerns that I don't know a whole lot about. But I think my starting point would be to immediately cease all stocking over viable (not just class A...) wild trout populations.

 

[LehighRegular]

Great and hard question:

1) Stop stocking over class A populations, maybe high class Bs too
2) Education - need to break the truck chasing mentality
3) Habitat - Need to have it and to improve it to have good populations of wild trout.
4) Need to improve/create fisheries that grown large wild trout (sorry I added a 4th)

 

[FarmerDave]

1. Stop stocking trout in all class A and B.
2. Open the hatcheries to the stringer crowd.
3. Paint the great white fleet pink and convert them for hauling anglers to and from the hatcheries.

I'm only half joking.

 

[3oh4]

I think that answer is the same in every state and almost everyone's answer will be the same on here.

*Habitat
*Regulation
*Fish Management

1. Before even thinking about talking about fish populations it starts with habitat quality. You guys in PA have it a little easier than I do in WV, but water quality, maintaining/repairing/creating quality trout habitat and identifying the right habitat for the right type of regulations.

2. Everybody Love Everybody (E.L.E. - Jackie Moon called it) - you can't create a war between power bait slingers and conservationists. There has to be an equilibrium to keep everyone content. If you protect so much water of a Class A/B etc. you have to have so much water or so many lbs. of fish for the stock trout fishermen and vice versa.

3. Use common sense! Don't put catch and release regulations on a stream that fish will die in every July and August. Don't stock adult trout in a wild fishery that produces quality wild fish. Don't create large fisheries on streams that can't handle insane fishing pressure. etc, etc.

***And in my opinion the one most won't put on their list but might be the most important - protect ACCESS RIGHTS! You have to find ways to keep water open to the public. Whether that be laws, tax cuts for property owners to open up their water ways or whatever else you can come up with.

 

[bigjohn58]

I think the main thing needed is to educate people about the value of a wild trout fishery. I'm already watching what changing the regulations on Fishing Creek has done for the area outside of Mill Hall to the Narrows. They changed the rules on harvesting fish after Labor Day from the stocked portion of Fishing Creek. It is all catch and release. Now just in about 2 weeks there has been increased pressure on the non stocked no regulations class A section of Fishing Creek with harvesting of fish. Watched a gentleman the past 2 weekends keep his limits from the one hole. All wild browns. I asked him what he caught and he said brookies. The guy held them up and they were all browns. Person had no clue so how do you educate someone like that? As long as you have people like this you are going to need to continue stocking streams even certain class A streams.

Second thing I would do is stop stocking the small bathtub sized class A streams. These are a joke. If someone wants to catch fish straight out of the stock truck let them buy a bucket and put in their bathtub or blow up swimming pool.

Last thing I would do is try to educate people who insist that wild trout taste better is to encourage summer harvesting on streams that do not support trout all year long. This is where the Slate Run section of Pine Creek really upsets me. No matter what anyone says Pine Creek from the Canyon down at least is NOT trout water. Its smallmouth, fallfish, carp, etc. That should be a delayed harvest section. Stocked trout after being in a stream eating wild food change on the inside. Their flesh turns orange and red just like a wild fish. Very little if anything can be noticed different on the inside of these fish from a wild trout. These are the fish that should be harvested especially on streams with warmer temps.

 

[rrt]

1. No stocking of Class A and B wild trout streams.
2. Perform habitat improvement projects on wild trout streams that need improvement.
3. Perhaps: establish restrictive kill regulations, perhaps by size. For instance, YWC once had a 9" minimum size for brook trout and a 12" minimum size for browns when the stream was not stocked. Perhaps do something like this with a kill limit of no more than 2 trout/day. Just a thought....

 

[Acristickid]

Education

Stocking- need a better plan

Habitat

 

[krayfish2]

List of many:

* Improve habitat
* Obtain additional access by working with landowners
* Cease stocking over strong populations of wild trout
* Close wild trout streams, not to harvest but fishing in general from 10/31 to 4/1. Want to fish over the winter? Utilize the fish stocked in the fall.
* Survey / study the waters after 3 years to see if closure during the spawn has benefitted the population.
* Reduced creel limits and put a slot limit in place on know wild fisheries.
* Close streams to all fishing during periods of drought, heat waves or know thermal stress.

 

[bigjohn58]

rrt wrote:
1. No stocking of Class A and B wild trout streams.
2. Perform habitat improvement projects on wild trout streams that need improvement.
3. Perhaps: establish restrictive kill regulations, perhaps by size. For instance, YWC once had a 9" minimum size for brook trout and a 12" minimum size for browns when the stream was not stocked. Perhaps do something like this with a kill limit of no more than 2 trout/day. Just a thought....

Notice my post...a lot of people don't know the difference from a brook trout and a wild brown trout. I know its hard for people to understand that on these pages but the average uneducated angler really doesn't know the difference.

 

[moon1284]

1.) Close streams during spawning season - around 10/15 to 4/1
2.) End stocking on Class As
3.) Reduce limits on non-stocked waters to 1 trout between 14 and 18 inches

honorable mention - have catch and release limits (i.e. you can catch and release up to 50 trout per day then you must stop fishing). Not sure how you could enforce this, but NB has a catch and release limit for Atlantic Salmon

 

[wildtrout2]

bigjohn58 wrote:

rrt wrote:
1. No stocking of Class A and B wild trout streams.
2. Perform habitat improvement projects on wild trout streams that need improvement.
3. Perhaps: establish restrictive kill regulations, perhaps by size. For instance, YWC once had a 9" minimum size for brook trout and a 12" minimum size for browns when the stream was not stocked. Perhaps do something like this with a kill limit of no more than 2 trout/day. Just a thought....

Notice my post...a lot of people don't know the difference from a brook trout and a wild brown trout. I know its hard for people to understand that on these pages but the average uneducated angler really doesn't know the difference.

I've got a buddy who has about $3000 worth of top end fly rods and he still can't tell a brookie from a brown. That's scary. And yes, I've tried to teach him the difference, but some folks are tough to get through to.
They really should get back to basics with YWC. I've heard stories of the "days of yore" on YWC. It must have really been something back in the day.

 

[bigjohn58]

wildtrout2 wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:

rrt wrote:
1. No stocking of Class A and B wild trout streams.
2. Perform habitat improvement projects on wild trout streams that need improvement.
3. Perhaps: establish restrictive kill regulations, perhaps by size. For instance, YWC once had a 9" minimum size for brook trout and a 12" minimum size for browns when the stream was not stocked. Perhaps do something like this with a kill limit of no more than 2 trout/day. Just a thought....

Notice my post...a lot of people don't know the difference from a brook trout and a wild brown trout. I know its hard for people to understand that on these pages but the average uneducated angler really doesn't know the difference.

I've got a buddy who has about $3000 worth of top end fly rods and he still can't tell a brookie from a brown. That's scary. And yes, I've tried to teach him the difference, but some folks are tough to get through to.
They really should get back to basics with YWC. I've heard stories of the "days of yore" on YWC. It must have really been something back in the day.

My father grew up practically on YWC in North Bend. He talked about catching fish all the time even down in the river. Me personally I feel its over rated but I am spoiled by the PA limestone streams.

 

[3oh4]

I think the idea of closing streams from fishing (Fall to April) is absurd and I'm a high school basketball coach who has no time to fish from November to April ironically.

 

[bigjohn58]

3oh4 wrote:
I think the idea of closing streams from fishing (Fall to April) is absurd and I'm a high school basketball coach who has no time to fish from November to April ironically.

A lot of these suggestions would never fly...people have to remember we are in the minority here. Also streams in PA get the least amount of pressure during the fall and winter. People switch over to hunting for the most part.

 

[3oh4]

I think it's insane to have closure seasons on streams with wild fish present b/c of stockings (I think having closures due to fragile temps and flow is necessary). Then telling me I can't fish for almost 5-6 months, one of the worst opinions/ideas I've read on this board.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

I hate to say this but I don't think slot limits work, just because the majority of people I encounter on stream sections regulated in this manner- never measure anything. If they catch a fish that looks like 9", it's going home. I have seen it enough times, and let's face it, WCO's are already stretched thin as it is, and people take advantage of this. As for the other suggestions, the biggest one for me is cessation of stocking over Class A streams for the reasons many of you site. I hate seeing people catching/killing wild browns on Penns Creek in the Spring Mills area where it is managed as a Class A stocked fishery like BFC. Instead of stocking Penns there with adult trout for Opening Day along with rainbow fingerlings later in the year- why not better manage the resource and allow it to develop into what it could be with more restrictive regs and no stocking? I have no doubt that making that a C&R ALO/All Tackle would really take that section to another level since all of the other ingredients are there.

 

[dc410]

I think stocking over wild trout populations is one of the biggest issues that we could control.

Education is definitely another one. Many people just don't realize that we have the thriving wild trout populations that we do here in PA. Spawning habits of wild trout in PA is another area that is great educational information.

But nature has a way of sustaining wild trout populations over time that we have no control over. Great spawning seasons are the result of optimal water levels, temperatures and weather conditions and not about the timing of a stocking or whether someone unknowingly stepped into an active redd. We are very fortunate here in PA to have the opportunity to fish over some great wild trout populations. I've seen many of these populations deplete and rebound over the years as the conditions dictate. We need to be good stewards of these streams but we can't control them.

 

[bigjohn58]

Wild_Trouter wrote:
I hate to say this but I don't think slot limits work, just because the majority of people I encounter on stream sections regulated in this manner- never measure anything. If they catch a fish that looks like 9", it's going home. I have seen it enough times, and let's face it, WCO's are already stretched thin as it is, and people take advantage of this. As for the other suggestions, the biggest one for me is cessation of stocking over Class A streams for the reasons many of you site. I hate seeing people catching/killing wild browns on Penns Creek in the Spring Mills area where it is managed as a Class A stocked fishery like BFC. Instead of stocking Penns there with adult trout for Opening Day along with rainbow fingerlings later in the year- why not better manage the resource and allow it to develop into what it could be with more restrictive regs and no stocking? I have no doubt that making that a C&R ALO/All Tackle would really take that section to another level since all of the other ingredients are there.

Just face it...its not going to happen on these larger class A streams. The public would not have it. I know they would never allow it on BFC. Quite honestly I bet I'd see even more people keeping fish from BFC out of spite if they quit stocking it. That's the mentality of the majority of anglers there. They are not very smart!

 

[sarce]

1. Habitat Improvement - not just in-stream, but in the entire watershed of ALL streams. Riparian buffers, better stormwater controls, and erosion control - establish those 3 things before doing any in-stream work. All the fish habitat structures in the world mean nothing if the water quality degrades to the point of not supporting reproduction or gets too warm in the summer.
2. Secure public access
3. Educate the angling public about wild trout.

Ending stocking over wild fish should be case-by-case IMO. I can think of some stocked wild streams that if you ended stocking, you'd maybe have more wild fish, but they would still be small due to lack of habitat. That's why I put habitat higher up. With that said there are PLENTY of stream sections that don't need to be stocked right now.