How stupid is the PFBC?

[lycoflyfisher]

BigJohn, you could always become a deputy WCO!

 

[bigjohn58]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
BigJohn, you could always become a deputy WCO!

How do you become that? If it takes away from my fishing time I'm probably not interested...having a 40 hour a week job is hard enough on my fishing time!

 

[Zak]

There are plenty of streams that are cold enough to not kill trout but don't have many or any wild fish. Brush Creek in Somerset County has very few wild trout and is very cold year round. I could actually go on and on but most of them are places I actually like the fish and would rather not paste haha ;-) There's a lot of options though.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Those places are not as plentiful as you think.
If it has cold clean water, habitat etc, wild trout should be there.

If it's cold but polluted, which there are plenty in the SW PA portion, you might as well stock them where right where they did.

In my experience of course. Not saying you are wrong.

However I hate when low density populations are stocked over myself. They struggle enough.

I have no issue with what they did.
They could stock them on I76 before a wild trout stream.

 

[JeffK]

Seems like a tough crowd. Hatcheries always raise more fish than needed so if something goes wrong they make their quota. Like planting more lettuce seeds than you need and thinning them over time. Hatcheries are more like a farm than a natural stream. The NJ hatchery thins the herd throughout the year based on a series of targets. Since the worst things don't stack up often, they usually run a surplus at the end of the year. And at the end of the year the raceways need to be cleaned and sterilized for the next batch so the leftovers have to go somewhere. In some ways it was easier when the thinned out fish ended up in the dumpster and nobody cared as long as the scheduled stockings were made. In NJ the surplus fish were sometimes used to feed muskies. Then someone always says why not stock the surplus. Of course then one needs the trucks and drivers, which may be doing other work after the regular season. NJ used to thin in winter and winter stocked a bunch of tiny guys that rose to midges all winter right by the hatchery. Some years the surplus browns were used to try to start a sea run. Of course some people are happy and most are not. Dividing up the extra always seems to leave discontents.

 

[bigjohn58]

JeffK wrote:
Seems like a tough crowd. Hatcheries always raise more fish than needed so if something goes wrong they make their quota. Like planting more lettuce seeds than you need and thinning them over time.

Thinning them over time...which should have been going on especially during the in season stockings. Things seem to be going well so add a few more to each in season stocking. You might have a few trout left over at the end of the season but thinning out the hatchery surplus during the in season stockings would have made a lot more sense!

 

[Mike]

There is no such thing as things "seem to be going fine" such that you can let down your guard in the hatchery business. Any excess is an insurance policy against ant number of things that can suddenly go wrong at one hatchery or another. It is, therefore, prudent to keep all excess fish until scheduled stockings are completed or nearly so. Note that my response is generic in nature has nothing to do directly with what has been reported here about Kettle Ck's stocking, as I have no direct knowledge of the Kettle Ck stocking.

 

[poopdeck]

Why bother Mike, with all this caring going on nobody is going to care about a reasonable explanation which makes perfect sense.

 

[Maurice]

If extra fish raised is based on a calculation of previous experience then so should the thinning be calculated based on currnent conditions or seasonal trends. Holding all your surplus to an unreasonable stocking date is as sensible as not raising extra fish.

They boned up, admiit it and move on. Otherwise it will happen again.

Find the guy that said “send them anyway” and fire him
Instead of the CNU support staff. This is the real story...a truckload of spoiled trout pales in comparison to the eye poke arway is playing with the coops. Trying to get his message across to the voters.

And...”ya never know” isnt a reasonable science based response...

 

[shakey]

TL;DR

answer: very stupid

 

[Zak]

Send them to the Yough, the Clarion, the Lehigh, the West Branch, The Sch Riv, Wills Creek, Brodhead Creek, gosh the options go on and on and on. Just givem in chance ;-)

 

[JeffK]

About the uncertainty of raising trout at a hatchery, the late Gil Bergen of the Connetquot hatchery often said "trout sure know how to die." Hatchery science seems to have made great strides over the time I have been fishing, but still plenty of uncertainty.

 

[FishTales]

Had asked our Hatchery Bureau Director Brian Wisner to reply with the rest of the story but haven’t seen it yet. So for those inquiring minds, please direct email him at bwisner@pa.gov. I am sure that his explanation won’t make everyone happy but the scope and extent of this fish kill does not appear as reported.

Thanks for everyone’s continued support but am still working on finding solutions. Now I know how salmon, trout and Shad feel when they migrate upstream and run into a dam blockage!

FT

 

[FishTales]

Note to moderator—Since Brian Wisner couldn’t post to the site because enrollments were closed, I an submitting the following on his behalf.

FT


The PFBC stocks approximately 3.2 million adult trout, 650,000 fingerling trout and supplies about one million fingerlings to cooperative nurseries each year. The production process begins about 1.5 years before stocking with a goal of producing those numbers of adults and fingerlings. Fisheries Management submits requests to the hatchery program each fall for the specific numbers, species and locations of fish to be stocked the next spring. Hatchery staff grade and inventory those fish multiple times throughout their time at the hatcheries to meet the stocking requests and provide trout to the anglers of PA.

When dealing with a live product for a length of time, there will be some variation within our inventory due to issues such as predation, cannibalism, disease, etc. If the hatchery inventories are 99% accurate, we may be off by 32,000 fish or so. Typically, by the end of stocking season, this is the case and inventories are off slightly and stockings need to be adjusted. If our inventories are a little shy, we will usually cut the end of in-season stockings by a small percentage across the board. This ensures that all scheduled stockings are still met and fish are where the anglers expect them. If we are over a little, sometimes fish can be added to a stocking but usually our stocking trips are scheduled in a way to maximize truck loads for efficiency and there is little room for extra fish. We must use caution if we think we have extra fish because if we are off by just 1% and have less fish than expected, some stockings may not be completed by opening day. If there are any fish to be stocked after the scheduled stockings are completed, Fisheries Management supplies us with a list of water bodies that are suitable for June stockings. These waters are some of our coolest stocked trout waters. Some of these waters are then chosen by the hatcheries for stockings because of proximity to the hatchery where the fish are located. Of course, most of the coldest waters out there are some of our Class A trout waters and would not be available for stocking.

In the case of the stocking in this thread, Oswayo SFH had some trout left at the end of their assigned stockings. Even though it’s thousands of trout, it is a very small percentage of the entire production of millions of trout by our hatcheries. Kettle Creek Lake and Kettle Creek section 5 were two of the waters recommended for late season stockings. A stocking truck from Bellefonte SFH was sent to Oswayo SFH, picked up the fish, then met the WCO at Kettle Creek Lake. The lake temperature was high and the coolest spots they could find were 74 F and they checked the stream and also had a high temperature (74 F). The WCO decided to go to the coolest part of the stream below a tributary which was 70 F. We prefer to stock trout in a maximum of 68 F, but this appeared to be the coolest temperature water they could find in the area. The WCO and stocking truck driver then used water from the stream to temper (or help equalize) the water temperatures between the stocking truck tank and stream. Tempering is a common practice during stockings and once the temperatures were within the acceptable range, the decision was made to stock because the fish were exhibiting some stress on the truck. The WCO and driver reported approximately 40 dead trout at this stocking. PFBC staff strive to rear and stock quality fish at all our stocking locations. If more trout died after the stocking, they were not aware of it. We do not want to have any fish mortality taking place and these late season stocking are sometimes difficult. Some posters in this thread recommended specific waters that could have been utilized and many of those waters are included on our list for late season stockings such as the Allegheny River and East Branch Clarion River. Not all late season stockings can take place on a couple of waters or the number of stocked fish would not be reasonable. We regret that this incidence occurred and have taken measures to ensure that all late season stockings will occur in waters that are 68 F or below and maintain those low temperatures.

Brian Wisner
Director, Bureau of Hatcheries

 

[Dave_W]

FishTales wrote:
Note to moderator—Since Brian Wisner couldn’t post to the site because enrollments were closed, I an submitting the following on his behalf.

Got it. Thanks FT.

Send our thanks to Brian for posting this thoughtful and detailed response. Much appreciated.
Dave

 

[NewSal]

Well would you look at that, the PFBC made a mistake, and it seems like one that wasn't nefarious at all.
I don't fish for stocked trout, but I support the program, and it seems to me that they do a pretty damn good job 99.9% of the time.
Everyone loves suiting up for a witch hunt, the lord knows everyone here complaining would run a flawless stocking program :roll:

 

[afishinado]

NewSal wrote:
Well would you look at that, the PFBC made a mistake, and it seems like one that wasn't nefarious at all.
I don't fish for stocked trout, but I support the program, and it seems to me that they do a pretty damn good job 99.9% of the time.
Everyone loves suiting up for a witch hunt, the lord knows everyone here complaining would run a flawless stocking program :roll:

^ Agreed.

They messed up....they fussed up....they took responsibility....and learned from their mistake. Can't ask for more than that.

 

[jifigz]

I agree that it honestly doesn't matter. Mistakes happen and I'm sure that running a stocking program on this scale is a giant PITA and logistical nightmare. I think the PFBC does a fantastic job most of the time. Now if my favorite trout stream would quit getting stocked but that may very likely cause rioting here in Mifflin County. Lol

 

[bigjohn58]

I'm just glad they admitted a mistake and said they won't have it happen again. I just hate seeing wasted resources!

 

[poopdeck]

Back to Facebook to look for some better drama.