High End Rods

[NRD]

as far as I can tell there is definitely a difference between a high end rod and a low end rod, but not so much between a high end rod and mid level rod.

That's the input I was looking for.

I already own a 10'7wt and a 10'6" 3 wt and enjoy them both. Think I would prefer a 10'4wt to the 10'-6" 3wt.

 

[JeffK]

I have a 10' 3 wt original Greys Streamflex overlined with a 4 wt DT line. Love it for nymph until the dries start rising. Like to high stick dries with longer rod to get line off misc currents in pocket water.

IMHO, the Euronymph craze ruined 10' rods - they got too stiff when specialized for Euronymphing. The older, softer ones load nicely for shorter dry fly casts; newer ones handle an all leader flip well, but don't fish as well with a fly line for me.

 

[afishinado]

I have a 10' 3 wt original Greys Streamflex overlined with a 4 wt DT line. Love it for nymph until the dries start rising. Like to high stick dries with longer rod to get line off misc currents in pocket water.

IMHO, the Euronymph craze ruined 10' rods - they got too stiff when specialized for Euronymphing. The older, softer ones load nicely for shorter dry fly casts; newer ones handle an all leader flip well, but don't fish as well with a fly line for me.

True ^.

I have an older 10 4wt H2. I use it as my all-around trout rod. It casts a line and fishes well for all types of fishing dries, nymphs, wets, smaller streamers. Longer rods are better for mending line, roll casts (bigger "D" loop more line for loading the rod D vs D ), increases the length of you cast stroke (same angle longer length - \/ vs \/. but, as stated above, you have to find the right rod. None of the newer Euro nymph rods I've tried fit into this category as an all-around trout rod, but there may be some out there. Most are built to cast light lines or mono with weighted flies and are really marginal for all other types of fishing.

 

[Tabasco-Joe]

Having come down with the hot running wants for a 10' 4wt, I've been visiting all the major rod builder web sites recently.

My question is: How much performance difference is there between entry level, mid grade, and high end rods?

Maybe it depends on what kind of person is doing the casting? I have a strong appreciation for high quality tools. I view the act of casting as part of the enjoyment of fly fishing. I'm also hesitant to part with $1000 for a fly rod. I can, but I need to understand why I should want to.

Maybe it depends on how I want to fish? I want to nymph till a hatch starts, then cast dry flies without carrying two rods. Not strictly tight lining.
I spend a significant portion of my time with my back to a wall, needing to roll or one hand Spey cast.

Last year, only 10 weeks into my fly fishing experience, a friend let me use his ~10 year old top end Sage 9' 5wt for a morning. I told him it was wonderful, but honestly couldn't discern the difference between it and my new Orvis Clearwater 9' 5 wt. By the end of the summer, with 4 more rods of my own (at least 1 too many) I was getting a feel for what I liked more or less. I'd also discovered I don't learn much by yard casting. My yard says keep the 7' 3 wt Hardy Demon. The creek says keep the 7'-9' 3 wt IMX Pro Creek.

Do top end rod designs trickle down to become mid grade rods as the state of the art advances? So like, how does today's Recon compare to the older Helios 2? I just watched a Helios 2 sell for $660 on EBAY when I can buy a new Recon with a warranty for $550. Normally warranties don't factor into my purchasing decisions, but these things are fragile.

Best to go to a shop where you cast a number of rods.
Few years ago I was on a fishing trip and lost my rod.
Stopped by Flyfisher's Paradise in SC to find a replacement.
Steve put together about 10 rods. (I think that's the most reels he could scrounge up with line.)
I went out on the grass and cast them.
It got down to two rods and I eventually chose the Sage.
That really convinced me to test rods side by side.

A few years later, I wanted a new rod and stopped by TCO.
Same thing. Tested a number of rods.
Chose the Winston.


When you try a number of rods at the same time, you can really feel the differences.
What works for you may not work for someone else.

BTW, when I went to TCO I took my own reels with my lines.
Took several with different lines.
I've since learned to fine tune my rod feel by selecting a line which enhances the rod feel.

 

[NRD]

I've since learned to fine tune my rod feel by selecting a line which enhances the rod feel.

I fully intend to experiment with this. After breaking my 5wt last year, I fished both a 4wt and a 3wt with my only reel loaded with 5 wt line for a few weeks. I definitely noticed the difference after purchasing some more reels and "appropriate" line weights.

 

[Tabasco-Joe]

I fully intend to experiment with this. After breaking my 5wt last year, I fished both a 4wt and a 3wt with my only reel loaded with 5 wt line for a few weeks. I definitely noticed the difference after purchasing some more reels and "appropriate" line weights.

I also notice a difference between line brands in the same weight.
It does get expensive trying several variables.

 

[Striperbobby]

Having come down with the hot running wants for a 10' 4wt, I've been visiting all the major rod builder web sites recently.

My question is: How much performance difference is there between entry level, mid grade, and high end rods?

Maybe it depends on what kind of person is doing the casting? I have a strong appreciation for high quality tools. I view the act of casting as part of the enjoyment of fly fishing. I'm also hesitant to part with $1000 for a fly rod. I can, but I need to understand why I should want to.

Maybe it depends on how I want to fish? I want to nymph till a hatch starts, then cast dry flies without carrying two rods. Not strictly tight lining.
I spend a significant portion of my time with my back to a wall, needing to roll or one hand Spey cast.

Last year, only 10 weeks into my fly fishing experience, a friend let me use his ~10 year old top end Sage 9' 5wt for a morning. I told him it was wonderful, but honestly couldn't discern the difference between it and my new Orvis Clearwater 9' 5 wt. By the end of the summer, with 4 more rods of my own (at least 1 too many) I was getting a feel for what I liked more or less. I'd also discovered I don't learn much by yard casting. My yard says keep the 7' 3 wt Hardy Demon. The creek says keep the 7'-9' 3 wt IMX Pro Creek.

Do top end rod designs trickle down to become mid grade rods as the state of the art advances? So like, how does today's Recon compare to the older Helios 2? I just watched a Helios 2 sell for $660 on EBAY when I can buy a new Recon with a warranty for $550. Normally warranties don't factor into my purchasing decisions, but these things are fragile.

I have gone exclusively with maxcatch rods. I think the most I have spent is $80 bucks. They cast nearly as well as high end rods and the fact that I do a lot of kayak fishing if I lose one or break one it doesn’t upset me like it would if I lost a sage or other high end rod. The fish definitely can’t tell what kind of rod I am using! Haha

 

[greywolf]

I've casted $1000 rods I hated and $200 rods I loved and vice versa. So the moral of the story is.....judge rods by how they work for you rather than assuming a more expensive rod is a better rod for you. It's an individual thing. Think of it like buying a car or truck. You test drive them first for how it drives, handles, rides, feels, looks and choose the best one for you. Yes any one of these vehicles can get you from point A to point B but if you spend all that money, why wouldn't you try to find one that you actually like to drive?

Don't spend good money on a rod you don't really like to fish (that's why there are so many "lawn casted only", "only fished twice" rods advertised for sale). Find a rod you really like and keep it around for a while. You'll actually save money by not having to rod shop every other year for a "better" rod. All I'm say is take your time, hit a few fly shops that carry different rods, maybe cast or fish your buddy's rods before you pull the trigger on a rod you see pictured online or one that Joe angler fishes and likes.

You asked what 10' 4wt I fish. It's an Orvis H2. But that's just me (Joe Angler). Like Pcray wrote above, I too am a faster rod type of guy. This rod works for me for all the types of fishing I do. But, you may not like that particular rod at all. Good luck on your search.

I could not have said it better. How expensive a rod is has not been a good indicator of how much I like it. The really low cost ones tend to be poorer than the rest, but once you get in the $200 and up range it becomes personal preference.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

And, since most of us are not elite casters, confirmation bias is likely to skew our perception of things. If we avoid "overpaying" for things, we may favor the mid-priced rods. If we want to "use the best", we may favor the high end rods. Bottom line (pun intended....sort of): If you can afford it and it makes you happy to use it, then it's the right rod for you.

 

[pcray1231]

Like I said, high end materials and techniques DO give the rod designers a better ability to hit their mark. I'm a materials engineer. Better materials are better. They let the designer more accurately get what he wants.

But a very good designer using top notch materials and techniques to design a rod to perfectly match the characteristics he wants? Well, I'm sure that's a very good rod and does exactly what the designer wanted. That is NOT to say I will like it. If what the designer wanted isn't what I wanted, well...

In fact higher end stuff become more specialized. Styles diverge. Instead of just fast or slow now they can make dozens of different feels. Better materials, better techniques make it possible. A rod designers dream. The end result is the cheaper rods tend to be jack of all trades, everyone says "eh, it's pretty good." Nobody hates it. Nobody loves it. But the high end stuff. We all hate about 90% of it. Hate it with a passion. Lol. But there's a few you could absolutely fall in love with. The ones those designers made for casters like you. And all that stuff we hate? Someone else absolutely loves.

It's like fly lines. Holy heck. Lol. There used to be floating, or sinking. Weight forward or double taper. That was about it. Now there is a specific line designed perfectly for every single scenario an angler could ever face. And I'm sure for your given scenario, there is a line that's PERFECT for it. Better than anything you could get 30 years ago. But it also means that 90% of the lines out there were designed for SOMETHING ELSE THAN WHAT YOU DO.

 

[mellowluke]

For what it's worth - my wife bought me an orvis helios 3 f 9ft 5 weight for father's day a few years back. Guess she really liked me that year. I put off buying a orvis h2 mid flex 9ft 5 weight waiting for a sale and it never happened (i really loved that rod - that's the one that got away). I tested the H3 my wife bought me with the same line reel combination as my very thrifty sage vantage circa 2007. The orvis had a slightly better feel, but I didn't fall in love. From a casting distance prospective, I recall the orvis slightly out distancing the vantage (but not enough for me to care, probably like 6 inches on a 40 foot-ish cast). Like everyone else has said, it's a personal preference thing. I just couldn't keep the rod knowing that it was just marginally better than my vantage yet 4x the cost, and it just didn't have the feel of the mid flex of the H2 which I fell in love with. Moral of the story is - if you have an H2 mid flex 9 foot 5 weight that you want to sell - get in touch!

 

[gulfgreyhound]

I think the line is more important than the rod. Big money rod and a cheap line are a disaster waiting to happen. It's like a reel. Or line holder. This reel has a great drag system, for a 10 inch trout. So what, how many know how to play a big fish off of a reel?
Rods, how far is you longest cast going to be? Why? Can you lay a line, a good one, out 30 ft? I could go on, but I hope you get my drift? GG

 

[Troutmeister]

Question for you all from a guy that's never casted a high end rod. My favorite rod is a TFO Lefty Krey Signature 8'6" 4 wt. I think I may have a 5 wt. line on it. Pretty much does what I need. I have a cheaper Cabela's rod and a cheap ebay small stream rod and a Reddington CT 9' 5 WT. that many have mentioned, but I usually fish the TFO. How would you rate this rod, cheap, intermediate or what?

 

[pcray1231]

The standard line for TFO is that they are on the cheap end of the price scale for sure. Not bottom basement Walmart type stuff, mind you, but as cheap as you can get a real rod. And they punch above their price point. They cast like intermediate level rods.

Several in this thread, including me, said you had to get into the $150-$200 range to get out of "junk" Walmart broomstick category, but beyond that, you can get some really good rods on the lower end that you might like better than something $600 or more. TFO is a good example of getting good rods at the lowest price point you can get good rods at. It'll be made in China. It won't have high end guides or reel seats or cosmetics. But they cast well, get the job done, and you can get 3 or 4 of them for the price of a high end rod.

 

[CRB]

I've had very good luck getting high end rods 1/3 to 50% off at the end of the run. Sage, Winston, Orvis, et.
All the big rod companies come out with a new series about every 5 years.
After 5 years the mandrels need replacing and new designs are easer to be done than that to make an old design mandrel.
The prices usually correspond to the price of carbon and what is available at the time.
There are a lot of supply issues with carbon and especially fiber glass prepregs this year, FYI.

 

[Troutmeister]

Thanks pcray for your assessment. I'm probably better off not knowing what I'm missing.

 

[krayfish2]

TFO fly rods are made in S. Korea. Hardy $900 rods and many others are made their too. TFO has many great casting rods at a price point well below many companies. Best cork or highest end components? No. Do they work great 90% of the time or is plenty of rod for most anglers? Yeppers. And... The warranty is excellent. Here's a video on how they make their rods that I found quite impressive

 

[Troutmeister]

Thanks for the video Krayfish. Gotta agree that the warranty is great. I had to use it when I snapped my salmon rod. Got stuck on the bottom and when it came loose and 1/4 oz. sinker slammed smack dab into my tip section.

 

[allan_s]

I am a big fan of the Douglas DXF. I have a 10 ft 5 wt and it casts a true 5 weight very nicely. It isn’t a powerhouse but, I didn’t buy it to be one. Great warranty. They just send you a piece. There is no shipping to them and waiting.

Also, rod length and design combined with line and leader definitely DO matter when it comes roll, switch or Spey casting. Casting with ‘the best of them’ is relative.

I have fished 10 ft rods as my primary rod for 15 years now. No issues at all for any of pa’s ‘big’ streams. Although, the length isn’t beneficial on a boat so I use a 8-9 foot rod when boating.

As a wading angler and for my style of fishing a 10 foot rod allows me to have an easier and more successful day on the water.

I would have a very difficult time spending 1000 on a rod but that is because I am very picky. 500 dollar range rod and spend 500 dollars on casting lessons will leave anyone better off.

 

[McSneek]

Price tag on a new Sage R8 is $1050.00. Yikes!